twinkies – the real story

side note

30 comments on “twinkies – the real story
  1. Tom-Tom says:

    Castrate every last corporate criminal. Literally lop them off. Now!

  2. JonnyJames says:

    He articulates some important points. The parasitical thieves of all stripes (banksters, corpo-kleptos, politi-whores) deserve to be imprisoned in general population, in a typical overcrowded US prison where inmates are routinely beaten and raped. I’m sure we can locate a prison or two run for profit by the likes of CCA.

    The only nitpick I have with his assessment is that (even using various definitions) “capitalism” is only a utopian theory, and this is not “captialism”. All social systems, including markets are set up by people. People have preferences. The rules of the game reflect the preferences of those who set it up. If the preferences of the majority of players are ignored, there can be no fair game. It will be rigged from the outset.

    If we had economic democracy, the players (peasants, if you will) would be treated fairly and these abuses would be minimized. There is always going to be an asshole who tries to steal from others, but those assholes can be dealt with by the rules of the game. Utopia will never be achieved, but the dysfunctional criminal system we have now is closer to dystopia or a kleptocratic neo-feudal hell.

    It does not have to be “socialism” or whatever label one calls it. All it has to be is a game that is not rigged, that treats all equally and fairly and enforces the rules.

    In essence this is simple, even a little kid can figure it out. Schoolkids on the playground know if a game is played fairly or not. Too bad few adults can.

    Anyone who says “markets regulate themselves” is either ignorant of history and economics, an oligarchical kleptocrat, or a politician. You simply cannot have a system or game without rules and referees.

  3. Tom-Tom says:

    Well said, JJ.

  4. jischinger says:

    @JonnyJames truth is truth, title it any system what you want

    trust, integrity, justice is what is missing in our current society and the only solutions I can come up with is, as Max so eloquently put it, rip it up and start over.

    However, most people are living in fear – they believe it is better to dance with the devil you know than to take a chance with anyone different – and that always leads me back to a couple hundred thousands people walking into one state and taking it over and either fighting like the banks fight the FEDS; sue sue sue stall, or out right secession.

    In brief – here are the two scenarios that play out in my head:
    1. Ron Paul runs for Governor of New Hampshire.
    2. Chris Hedges, Noam Chomsky, Ralph Nader, etc… all move to Vermont.

    In each scenario these vigilant leaders set up shop and put out a clarion call.

    For an army or a cause to win the battle or the day two things are required – warm bodies standing close together.

    “Eighty percent of success is showing up.” Woody Allen

  5. evolutis says:

    A JonnyJames … great assessment //the anthropic principle made my mind hurt the last time I made an attempt to understand it … now, thanks to you my curiosity will not let alone so another go at it is at hand. LOl
    A knowledge based system has no need of artificial, monetary considerations so much of the incentive to be intentionally, unfair is removed. So perhaps the links in the chain of such a system would require the ability to change along with the interval of stackable stackable, knowledge.

  6. evolutis says:

    A knowledge based system does not mean things are FREE, just like life is not an artificial, monetary matter … curiosity feeds intention, autonomy, mastery.

  7. Jayme says:

    “It will be rigged from the outset. ”

    All systems unfold out of an initial set of conditions. This is a nice synopsis of civilization.

    Every civilization carries the seeds of its own destruction, and the same cycle shows in them all. The Republic is born, flourishes, decays into plutocracy, and is captured by the shoemaker whom the mercenaries and millionaires make into a king. The people invent their oppressors, and the oppressors serve the function for which they are invented.
    – Mark Twain in Eruption


  8. kdt says:

    @Max the “real story” LMAO YOU cant handle the real story on this one

    sorry to have to disagree with bright boy there BUT hostes is a failure of socialism as by any streach this ain’t “capitalisim” we have here and hasn’t been for a LONG time!
    even more to the point , this is ALL about the unions at the end of the day(socialist instutions unions are, or last I heard any how). there entrenchment in the company rendered it incapable of adapting to the changing market , in particular the “teamsters” defence of there jobs hauling the stuff around and delivering it directly to the stores and even STOCKING it on to the shelves…………ALL at teamster union scale . with the bakers pulling the same thing on the prodution end. each colective democratically voting over and over and over again ad nauseum to IGNORE what the MARKET not “Managment” was telling them.
    at a certain point any one in “managment” who was loyal to the brand quit in disgust at the continual losses and the regulatory trap the unions had the company in that prevented adaptation, this left nothing but parisites who did what parisites DO to a weakened and deceased creature or plant in nature , ITS THERE JOB even magots have purpose.
    NOBODY who works at hostes has ANY ONE to “blame” but themselves SORRY, as far as im conserned those “picketers” need to go get a JOB!! I have NO symipithy sorry if that is harsh but this did not “just” happen because a bunch of greedy parisites killed there host. somthing weakened that host first in order for them to get a foot hold and that was the unions and in the case of THIS parisite he has ties to both the teamsters and the democrats. AGAIN “socialist instutions” to whome he has given LOTS of cash for the privilege of running this rape for the benifit of his hedge fund AND that is why this stayed under the radar till AFTER the election , he is yet another of obamas “bundlers” like “jon the don” corzine. NOT the sort of thing that would have playd well in the public with the canpaign that obama ran against romnie.

    all you “collectivists” need to take a good hard look becaus this is ALL YOU from front to back .
    LIBERALS fucking over OTHER liberals unions screwing over each other AND there memberships ALL in a GREEDY feeding frenzy around there “golden goose” now a bloody heap stomped in to the ground under there IGNORENT feet.

  9. OlympiaLogger says:

    A Democracy is a Wolf, a Coyote and a Duck deciding what they’re going to have for dinner.

    What this Dunning-Kruger school of political science graduate MIGHT mean is Republic. But that’s almost without a doubt too much for him…her, uh… it to grasp.

    And it’s such a nice little hair-wisp from his ponytail too.
    Talk about a TWINKIE !!!

  10. Sir David Rottentrousers says:

    But his point about life insurance is just naive. Yes, I agree, the language regarding “dead peasant” is awful, but there are many ways that individual consumers can do the same thing. Insurance, and the insurance game, is not strictly an elite tool of wealth creation.

    Consumers have many brilliant ways to make a buck, or at least take a bet to try and make a buck, but most consumers don’t care and would rather just go into debt rather than accumulate assets.

    Let’s take silver and gold for an example, how many Americans would rather own an iPad or flat screen TV than buy a bar of silver or a 1oz gold coin??? If people today had the intelligence that our great-grandparents had the price of gold and silver would be through the freak’n roof by now! But proof positive, people today are freak’n small and stupid!

    Lastly, this guy is asking you to stand up for “bakers” who make toxic snacks to disease your children with–diseases ranging from diabetes, ADHD, ADD, and cancer.

    This man is clearly what they call “bleeding heart liberal idiot!” You should be cheering that these toxic bakers are out of work and are going to be forced to find new work–hopefully a percentage of the people will find better jobs that help the community instead of harming it.

  11. Roger Yates says:

    @ Sir David I just love all your consumer this and consumer that and “brilliant ways to make a buck” and be a good consumer. Can you not see what a an insult that term consumer is to you ? How it reduces you to a function? Are you blind? Just think about the word. That is the kind of crap always spouted by slaves. I am not a consumer. I am a man. I am not a function of an economy. I may chose to go any way, just for the bloody hell of it. And I use my own name online. What are you afraid of you poor trembling consumer you? Grow some. Do something unexpected for once in your life.

  12. Sir David Rottentrousers says:

    Robert Yates – The living consume, whether we are speaking about plants, animals or humans. We exist to consume, we consume because we exist….

    “Man is nothing else but what he purposes, he exists only in so far as he realizes himself, he is therefore nothing else but the sum of his actions, nothing else but what his life is.”
    ― Jean-Paul Sartre

  13. Alf says:

    It looks like one or two of our American brothers are in denial of what just
    happened in the last election. That old crazy right-wing neoliberal agenda was
    resoundingly rejected out of sight by a new fairer, multi-cultural and forward
    thinking America…God bless ya!

  14. Bruce says:

    * this gentleman has good hair.
    * he has rodents in his room
    * he makes good points, points which I have yet to verify
    * I doubt very much that the workers taking over would result in better products; more likely the same things will be sought: maximum profit.
    * the best protest is non-participation: be as self-sufficient as possible and crush the corporation that makes p00p out of your own actions.
    * I would love to get on the good end of a life insurance scam that employees don’t know about.
    * I would love to know how to steal pension funds.
    That is all.

  15. Bruce says:

    …oh and that is one long outro. One long outro that I had to download, yo.
    Still, the gentleman don’t forget where he came from, yo.

  16. giggler says:

    They’ve done this with some success in Argentina but I doubt you could do the same in USA without facing the heavy hand of law.

  17. Roger Yates says:

    @ Sir David. It’s Roger. What a lot of tautological twaddle Sartre does spout, the crypto- totalitarian little twerp. Humans have something else between their mouths and their arseholes other than the results of consumption. Be unpredictable.
    @ JohnnyJames The “capitalism” that was formulated by Ayn Rand and Greenspan et al was exactly a “utopian theory” proposed by a second rate novelist and a failed jazz saxophonist (Greenspan). Notice how these fools mirrored Marxist Utopianism. In Marxism you have three elements in a dialectical structure . One is a pseudo scientific “force”. So you have “the masses” responding to “the forces of History” resulting in a Utopian ideal “Socialism”. Free market theorists, lacking any originality, have simply changed the names of the elements. Now you have “the consumer” responding to “market forces” resulting in another Utopian Ideal “the end of history” or “Freedom and Democracy” (whatever floats ya boat). You are right, these are human structures and can be changed. Be unpredictable.

  18. Roger Yates says:

    @ Sir David “we exist to consume, we consume because we exist”. Your appeal to nature is extremely limited. We are material vehicle by products of the evolution of DNA code. This is information. It consumes nothing. It is not material. Like thought, perhaps. We exist to evolve, in totally unpredictable directions and without purpose. I am afraid you are bringing out the scatological in me again. It’s like you are looking at your own turds and seeing in them the meaning of your life.

  19. Sir David Rottentrouser says:

    Troll Yates – You’ve resorted to personally attacking me in both your posts–your childhood must have been extremely undesirable.

    I’m not sure really what has you all hot and bothered. Is it because I’m happy that a disgusting parasite company has collapsed? Or did I hurt you somehow by pointing out that you are just a mere consumer like the rest of us?

    Look dude, while you’re sipping your Starbucks coffee today, listening to something groovy on your iPhone, and driving your Japanese branded economy car to work, take a good look at yourself in the rearview, take a deep breath and say these words… “I’m no different than the bird in the sky, the cockroach in the dumpster, or the weed in my garden… I’m here for the same purpose….”

    Maybe when you get older and out of your Mom’s basement you’ll understand.

  20. utahgentile says:

    Why am I thinking Animal Farm?

  21. Roger Yates says:

    Oh dear. I seem to have upset him…….

  22. Mother Earth says:

    Not real, wrongheaded. Perpetuates the myth of the value of money.

  23. jischinger says:

    @kdt fyi max didn’t post this – I did

  24. jischinger says:

    @kdt – no, this isn’t about socialism, this is about theft, larceny and fraud which is what the CEO of Hostess should be accused of and convicted for.

    what we have here in the US with the lack of trust, lack of integrity and lack of justice is a soft form of fascism.

  25. jischinger says:

    @Bruce you are a pessimist –

    you know what my favorite butter company is, Land O Lakes – it’s a worker run for profit co-op – I pay about .15 more for a pound for butter when I buy this product – Next to importing Danish butter, very expensive organic butter or making homemade butter Land O Lakes is the best butter on the market.

    And my Credit Union – which made a profit this year, in fact I just received another dividend and made more money than if I would have stuck it in some big bank and paid fees to keep it there, not to mention the services I use that are free or half of what the big bank charges – that’s what I get when the CEO of my bank makes a common sense salary.

    Then there’s the co-op grocery store which I get great discounts for just being involved a few hours aweek, not to mention the other co-ops that are popping up from time banks, to bike shops, to art galleries, a bakery, even the local bar and there are more in the works…

    Oh, and you know what my favorite airline is, Southwest Air – guess what…

    It’s not just about the profits – which when you think about it drives you away from working in your community – it’s bout quality of life.

    I know all these things can be done, I know if they handed the Hostess over to the workers and used even the basic co-op rule standards this company would not only be profitable, they would make a better product and pay their workers a sustainable living wage, I know this because I see these things working every day.

  26. jischinger says:

    Overall humans have a few things in common
    Overall a civilized society requires certain things to remain civilized

    The following are those requirements: clean shelter, clean food and water, health care, education, purposeful work, communication .

    Once those things are covered and not interfered with by government, markets or man – make a gazillion dollars convincing people that a rock is indeed a pet, go hang yourself for all I care, just don’t touch or mess with those basic necessities.

  27. Bruce says:

    I don’t doubt there are alternatives, or better ones, but I like to do things myself. Butter, I can’t make it, but I don’t eat it either. I don’t doubt there are better alternatives, but as soon as those alternatives become mainstream (if they ever do), the same ‘creep’ occurs and it attracts the wrong people and the same ‘wrong things’ are done.

    Animal Farm is a perfect book to illustrate this.

    Again, I don’t think there aren’t better alternatives out there, I just often think the best stuff is stuff you do yourself (if you can, you should).

  28. Bruce says:

    In the case of these toxic foods, there are plenty of alternatives the average person can do; making things yourself is one of them. Yelling at the company or demanding your rights? So last century. Take them out of the loop completely.

    Not only do you save money, but you start to crush at the huge buying power of these companies, you produce far less waste (distribution, packaging) and you actually eat better foods.

    Sure, you need some time and resources to make the stuff, but that’s easily done and can be made fun for kids too.

  29. jischinger says:

    I agree

    but I think it’s gotten out of hand

    see the argument about raw milk

  30. kdt says:

    no, this isn’t about socialism, this is about theft, larceny and fraud which is what the CEO of Hostess should be accused of and convicted for.

    i covered this in my post.

    no self respecting “CEO”would have ANYTHING to do with running a DOG like hostes it was a DEAD end (i mean REALY how many first class buisness school grads were beating down there doors over the last 20 years?)and “collective” bargains are the reason.(have you read ANY of the absolute HORSE SHIT all of it “UNION REGS” that went in to putting that crap on the shelves? hint “rube goldberg” would have found it WAY too complex) and that left hostes managed by leeches and incompetents. that simple. the cause of managments failure may be an “unintended” consequence but ignoring it dont make it go away, the unions made hostes in to a shit job for managment and got SHIT for managers as a DIRECT result. funny how “markets find equilibrium in there own way .

    p.s. you missed the fact that the teamsters are the ones FRONT RUNNING this whole thing LOL. that is MY point!! in this case even the vulture “capitalist” is in fact a socialist and gave money TO yet more socialists for the privlage…………..(the left right meme is so worn that you can see right through it)…………..dude you GOT to look WAY past the MSM spin masters they figured out the “viral vidio” meme with “kony 2012” you got to READ , and well past the head line to the inbetween the lines parts. a snip in one story an off hand remark in another, is as close to the truth you will get even from the “alturnitive press” who are well on there way to geting use to there new saleries to the point of not wanting to “jeprodize” them………….

    p.p.s. sorry i missed your by line

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