Peter Schiff is loose at the DNC convention

Corporate profits or corporate welfare? If you take away the welfare US corporations get from the government there would be very little, if any, profits. Both Schiff and the respondents are clueless.


“When I’m not clubbing baby seals to death,
I like to ‘legitimately’ rape your wife and
daughter.”

Speaking of freak (fake) Libertarian fucktards: I present Keith Weiner

A free market is composed of people who produce and trade the products of their efforts in exchange for the products of others. The free market is able to coordinate the activities of everyone, and enable everyone to optimize his results. Unfortunately, governments interfere in the free market. They do so by the use of force. The government always justifies its intrusions on the grounds of helping people.

My working definition of a fake libertarian is someone who misuses both terms: ‘markets’ and ‘government’ as we see exemplified by Keith Weiner’s above quote. Fake libertarians don’t really want free markets. That’s their dirty little secret. A free market, based on a (near) perfect market-making mechanism like the one I designed in 1996 (illegally patented; US pat. No. 5950176) scared the hell out of the fake libertarians in Hollywood and Wall St. who stole the technology and screwed it up (keeping my version off the market) before they outlawed the bastartized version altogether with Dodd-Frank in 2010. If the Virtual Specialist technology had been allowed to revolutionize markets, price discovery would have entered a new phase of purity that would have obliterated much of the income streams of fake libertarians like Schiff and others. The Fake Libs love the broken system the way it is. It’s a way to justify their rent seeking while claiming to be for ‘freedom.’

Markets can be made to more perfect by allowing price discovery to include all currently ‘externalized’ costs, claims and risks but don’t ask any so-called libertarians for help on this. They prefer the rent seeking that comes from being upstream in a dirty, broken system.

On the other side of the coin, the misuse of the word government; this is self-evident in Weiner’s quote, as it flies in the face of everything the founders put forth. If you have trouble with this, reread the Constitution.

59 comments on “Peter Schiff is loose at the DNC convention
  1. someoneionceknew says:

    Peter Schiff is an idiot.

  2. Up_to_it_InSilver says:

    I never listen to Schiff. He never says anything of substance and lacks analytical insight. Schiff ignores Wall Street’s criminal conduct or bad business practices like Bain Corp’s Pirate Equity debt loading and asset stripping. Just another von Mises fascist.

  3. Max loves giving his profits to the french gov. “75%? Not enough! Take more! “

  4. Simon K says:

    Giving 75% for the french gov. is better than giving 75% to buy a suitcase made of clubbed seals.

  5. Tom-Tom says:

    @DEEPSOULRADIO ETAL.

    The top 10 corporate tax dodgers in the USA. (Play the national anthem while you read this and think about the young men and women who have have been killed, who have been maimed for life, who are mentally scarred forever.)

    1. BANK OF AMERICA took $336 billion in bailouts in 2009, but in 2010, flush with $4.4 billion in profits, IT PAID NO TAXES. Even Forbes magazine asked, how is that possible? Their 115 offshore tax havens.

    2. BOEING just received $35 billion from our government to build 179 airborne tankers, but despite nearly $10 billion in profits from 2008 to 2010, IT TOO PAID NO TAXES, again thanks to foreign tax havens.

    3. CITICORP took $476 billion from the bailout and then made monster profits in 2010, YET IT PAID NO TAXES, thanks to 427 subsidiaries in tax havens like the Cayman Islands and Hong Kong.

    4. EXXON/MOBIL received huge oil subsidies from the government and earned $45 billion in 2009 BUT PAID NO TAXES, again thanks to stashing profits in places like the Bahamas and Singapore.

    5. GE – General Electric recorded profits of $19,616,000 for the same period from 2008 to 2011, and had A TAX RATE OF MINUS! 18.9%.

    6. GOOGLE utilizes a technique that moves most of its income through Ireland and Netherlands to Bermuda, MAKING IT’S TAX RATE 2.3%.

    7. MEGA PHARMACEUTICALS MEREK earned $9 billion in profits and PAID NO TAXES IN 2010, while PFIZER (the largest drug maker) owed $10 billion in taxes but found the necessary loopholes to pay NO TAXES, thanks to its offshore subsidiaries in places like Luxembourg and the Isle of Jersey.

    8. NEWS CORPORATION, Rupert Murdoch’s media monolith that owns FOX NEWS AVOIDS PAYING AMERICAN TAXES through its 152 subsidiaries in tax havens from the British Virgin Islands to Hong Kong.

    9. VERIZON, despite making $24.2 billion in pre-tax US income, paid no taxes and actually claimed a federal refund of $1.3 billion for the last two years, again all thanks to those offshore subsidiaries.

    10. WELLS FARGO, the fourth largest bank in the US, which took $107 billion in bailouts, wrote off all its losses by acquiring Wachovia, thus PAYING NO TAXES. Yet its CEO earned $5.6 million in cash for his salary and $13 million in stock.

    —Washington Times Communities
    http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ad-lib/2011/apr/10/tax-evaders-wall-shame/

  6. sam says:

    Peter Schiff has been watching the yes men or perhaps he wants to be on the daily show?

  7. jischinger says:

    I was actually politically friendly towards Van Jones and he blew me off.

    so, I stood back and watched him for a while – the duration of the event he was at, I was there anyway – just to see how busy he was and frankly, he wasn’t busy at all.

    my observations and gut feeling on the guy were, he likes to make speeches in front of crowds, eat, shoot the bull with people who talk sports not politics, promote his books, then leave.

    He struck me as a master of not talking to anyone who had a clue about politics or couldn’t benefit from in some way.

    I was bummed a bit cause I thought he’d be real – he’s just as fake as every other politician – he’s got a theme and it keeps him living well. You get the feeling he doesn’t even believes what his books spouts, he just says stuff to get you to buy in.

    On a similar roll call venue: you know who was really nice, thoughtful and very interesting, Bill Ayres. Now he was a busy guy, but watching him you could see how he went out of his way to speak to anyone who had a question or concern. This myth the GOP builds up around the guy, heck, I think they’re surprised it stuck.

  8. jischinger says:

    @Tom-Tom thanks for the list

  9. jischinger says:

    so is Schiff a Darwinist?

  10. Chester Hazlewood says:

    Schiff is mindless. The problem is capitalism doesn’t work as Nouriel Roubinihas (a man that has a mind) has stated. Employers want higher profits by way of lowering wages, however they also want to sell to an affluent market (folks that have high paying jobs) . This is a catch 22 that can’t be resolved. You can’t sell an iPhone to a slave. Wake up! Capitalism is and always has been a neo-feudal system and in the end will collapse like it is doing. The solution may be Anarcho-syndicalism.

  11. stacyherbert says:

    Well Schiff’s books are rather good reads for investment purposes, but sad to see yet another American fall into this partisan gotcha Breitbarteque shtick. Each side does this – the liberal goes undercover with the Republicans to find the most ignorant f*+k in the entire convention to prove how racist and ignorant they ALL are; and the right wing dude goes undercover against the Dems, find the “socialist worker’ pushing asshole at the convention and get him to prove how socialist they ALL are and how much they love helping illegal alien prostitutes get abortions! blah blah blah, it’s all school playground in America. Schiff is three or four years too late with this. Breitbart is dead. And the schtick like quality of Schiff’s piece is evident in the fact that he fails to mention that corporate profits are at a 50 year high . . . under Democratic party rule; they increased 8.5% last year alone: http://seekingalpha.com/article/467231-corporate-profits-continue-to-impress

  12. SiriusBlack says:

    Without corporate welfare, corporations would certainly make a profit, at least some would. But they’d have to do it by producing goods and services that people want to buy, at a price discovered by the market. And how much fun would that be?

  13. jischinger says:

    someone ought to send freak (fake) Libertarian fucktard Keith Weiner a link to the interview Max did with Denninger this week

    http://youtu.be/z65k5SbzuUU

  14. Alf says:

    Hey Pete…that was one step down from Glenn Beck…Congratulations.

  15. Trip says:

    Max, maybe you could tell us what a real libertarian is.

    Whether or not this stunt by Schiff is a cheap gotcha shtick, it’s still pretty funny. I’d like to see the responses if Schiff had asked if they thought Apple Inc. profits should be banned. He could suggest that they pull out their iPhone, iPad, or MacBook and use it to shoot a message to their Congressperson to introduce the bill.

  16. stacyherbert says:

    @Trip – yes and lots of the undercover videos proving the red team are racists and telling the government to keep their hands off our Medicare are funny, too; but the Red Team/Blue Team thing has resulted in a land of peasants living on food stamps casting stones at the wrong sort of person collecting government benefits: http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/50466c5178c90a7d9d0001aa

  17. Trip says:

    Stacy, thanks for the link. I knew the Tea Party was over the moment Palin first reared her hoary head at one of their rallies. Even Ron Paul–for whom the original Tea Party was allegedly inspired by–keeps a distance from the Tea Party of today. I personally will be voting third party for President–any party besides the Republicrats–so you’re preaching to choir on that topic.

    But speaking of Ron Paul, Weiner’s quote sounds like something straight out of Paul’s mouth, and my memory may be faulty, but haven’t I heard Max on many occasions praise Paul as the only candidate of consideration? Care to comment?

  18. stacyherbert says:

    @Trip – I think Max is saying that it is corporations and monopolists that intervene in free markets in the US; it was, for example, a combination of a bond dealer and the Hollywood cartel that campaigned to suppress and just plain ol’ suppressed the price discovery role of Max’s technology; the technology, however, is used by NYSE, CBOT, CME and JPM for pricing various assets and products, but it is not the full use of the technology; but aside from Max’s technology – you see across America that it is corporations interested in maintaining their profits without competition to threaten those profits – so, for example, the entire agriculture sector – whether it is the ban on labelling your meat as BSE free or restrictions on selling unpasteurised milk or cheese – those are mostly restrictions brought by Republicans on behalf of their Big Ag corporate funders; on the other side of the aisle, you have a wide array of restrictions on technologies that would force big media or big tech to compete to maintain their profits; and yes if Ron Paul were in the race, we would vote for him because he would end the Fed, end the CIA, the MIC, the IRS . . . most of those claiming to be libertarian would actually expand some of those

  19. snoop diddy says:

    Schiff is riding the ego trip and playing to the crowd.
    He’s not libertarian, he’s part of the camp of all those ‘libertarians’ that want to stay in the Republicans because it provides better photo ops, don’t mind brown nosing neo-cons and doesnt come with real sacrifices as the neo-cons run the party. So when it goes on and nothing changes they just blame the neo-cons while they have their snouts in the same trough too.

  20. jischinger says:

    Maybe I’m confused but I remember – with some certainty – that within days of passing TARP it was Karl Denninger who started the Tea Party and the following summer Dick Armey and the Koch Bros hijacked the thing in Texas.

  21. jischinger says:

    I never thought of Peter Schiff as a smart guy – I always thought of his as a guy a bit angry bout his pop’s situation and out of that just fell into the whole idea of gold.

    What did he do before selling the stuff?
    I know he thinks college is a waste of time, but I think he did go.

    what did he do between college and selling gold, anyone?

  22. Trip says:

    You have to admit, though, that Schiff does a pretty good deadpan. Maybe it’s time for him to switch careers.

  23. sam says:

    @stacy, agree. I’ve said it before on this site;

    Peter Schiff good economist, useless human.

  24. Brad says:

    Schiff rocks. I have listened to Schiff for years begining with his broadcast on Wednesday nights. If I had to state Schiff’s core belief it would be “as little government as possible”. Schiff and I wouldnt’ agree on everything but overall he is open minded and analytical.
    If you are not listening to his radio show you are really missing out. And, unlike Stacey, I am sure Schiff would agree that the huge influx of illegal labor in this country has thrust a burden on the working class American that we can no longer bear. And as goes the working man so goes the country. Yes that does include Connecticut Stacey.

  25. JR says:

    So now you’re claiming to control markets in general with your perfect (lets just forget the fake humility) market making mechanism, rather than just the silver market & the weather? Next you’ll claim you are in fact God.

    You’re the fucktard Keiser. I actually hope you & your SLA get taken out the back & arse raped worse than in 2011.

    Attack!

  26. snoop diddy says:

    Schiff has the same infection as Woods.
    Re-writing history so it serves his agenda.
    One of the most arrogant things I’ve heard is Schiff debating Cornel West and Schiff saying the free market created civil rights.

  27. stacyherbert says:

    @Brad – if Schiff is Austrian School he would have to support totally free and open borders (which I suspect he does, though he would probably not admit to this whilst speaking to a Tea Party group); if he’s libertarian, not Austrian, then yes, there are some 17 libertarian schools and some may support closed borders; but here is some more on “A Libertarian Case for Free Immigration”; and here are some quotes from Ludwig von Mises on immigration:

    There cannot be the slightest doubt that migration barriers diminish the productivity of human labor.

    and

    The closed-door policy is one of the root causes of our wars.

    From your tone, I suspect you think you are ‘libertarian’ and ‘Austrian,’ from the above quotes, however, I think you will have to re-examine that with which you label yourself.

    @sam – he’s not an economist; he’s a banker who adheres (as he sees it) to a particular economic school

  28. snoop diddy says:

    and I don’t pretend people don’t lie all the time to serve their own agenda but when it’s dogma and it seems to be a party line of a certain clique, well there is obviously a push there for misinformation and brainwashing.

  29. Brad says:

    Stacey,

    I have to go to work but I will find the time to make clear to you the most obvious points you are presently missing.

  30. Jerry says:

    Yes! Yes! YES! Brilliant…how to destroy fake Libertarian bullshit in three paragraphs…you nailed it! Libertarians like to talk a good game but the ugly truth is when they talk about freedom, they mean freedom for themselves only. They want to break the chains that tie them to their masters while keeping their personal slaves on the plantation.

  31. Flopot says:

    Max speaks truth to bullshit.

  32. snoop diddy says:

    @jischinger,
    He has said he was on the welfare for a few months and then I think he worked for someone or just went and started his own investment company, not sure.
    Here he is in 2002:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nbXbriOHP8

  33. Hegelian Dialectic says:

    1) A free market is composed of people who produce and trade the products of their efforts in exchange for the products of others.
    B) Unfortunately, governments interfere in the free market. They do so by the use of force. The government always justifies its intrusions on the grounds of helping people.
    Q) My working definition of a fake libertarian is someone who misuses both terms ‘markets’ and ‘government’ as we see exemplified by Keith Weiner’s above quote.

    Hey Max, maybe I AM just as dumb as I look after all. So, could you please do some ‘splainin’ to me about exactly what you think he said here and how you disagree with it?

    ( Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market )

  34. ZORRO LONDON says:

    Peter is just making the point as to a) the low IQ of the electorate and, b) what a sheeple looks like.

    Frankly, matters not whether republican or democrat, as we here know its the same team anyway, and these folks have bought into the lie and deception, hook line and sinker.

    They just look like you and me, but have no opinion unless someone gives it to them.
    Is there any surprise there are so many zombie movies and why they are so popular.

    Or havent you realised that they are merely soap operas that the sheeple can relate to.

    Its no better here in the UK or any other English speaking parts of the world.

    It is said that we get the Police we deserve. In the UK my observation is the systematic removal of those officers with experience and dumbing down many of the candidates. More compliant and politically correct.

    If there are those awaiting a sudden intelectual awakening, then you have got a damn long wait.

    These walking vegetables are proof enough. All they will agree on is to kill eachother out of greed and ignorance of those that are simply different.

    Finally I share Anne Barnhardts frustration. THEY WILL NOT LISTEN…other than to their illusory demigods.

    We…are….doomed! LOL

    …………………………Z

  35. Jayme says:

    The financial definition of profit is very myopic and is full of externalization and blame. It’s a selfish concept.

  36. Lumber Jack says:

    @StacyHerbert @MaxKeiser

    Stop bringing attention to people’s whose ideas are wrong. “Hey look at how wrong Peter Schiff is!” I’m not going to watch a video where there’s a bunch of wrong people debating, if I wanted to do that I would watch Fox News, CNBC, MSNBC, or CNN.

    MAX and STACY: show us what you think is right! I have an idea already: gold, silver, breaking up the banks, regulation in the financial sector, prison for fraudsters, and maybe leaving the U.S., all of which I agree with.

    I’d add third party voting by people (stop voting for fascism)

  37. Dustbowl Daze says:

    Clueless Conservatives and Clueless Liberals should come together into one Clueless party.

  38. Hugh Beaumont says:

    Nothing in nature has any value unless labor is applied to it – ok, wild berries and water. Labor creates “surplus value” and that should be allocated equitably. If the worker is being paid a just wage (and yes, the amount is arguable), there’s nothing wrong with the capitalist making a lot of money. Schiff takes an “all or nothing” approach, so makes the same mistake on the other side of the argument.

  39. Sacramento Joe says:

    I agree. Schiff has lost his way.

  40. Zach OBrien says:

    Stacy most of the people he interviewed were delegates.

  41. stacyherbert says:

    @Lumber Jack – yes all those things; I’m not sure yet about the currency grid and what we need there; I know it’s falling apart as it is, however, and it will be replaced; I’m most concerned, however, by the fact that all the same crooks and scoundrels are in place in both political and financial office and that any new standard – whether gold or fiat – will only be done in a way that is against us; I think instead abolishing legal tender laws and letting the market decide (which I have no doubt will be gold and silver) what currencies to use is the option that will allow the most to maintain their liberty; not completely sure yet though, will be discussing this with a few upcoming guests; and re: pointing out the flaws, many of our views overlap with Peter’s but we don’t live in the US and so are a bit outside of the bizarre partisan bubble that exists there; it seems all who enter that bubble, however, have little hope of escaping the two party partisan mindset

  42. kdt says:

    part of the issue with “libriterianisim” is that there live and let live phlosiophy allows for anarco/colectivists like Shiff to pretend to be anarcho/capitalists and muddie up the waters. he states that we should ALL be renters so we dont have to care about the “property” we use……………other than “non agression” private property ownership is a libriterian obsession BECAUSE private ovners (as long as there REAL people NOT corperations) take the best care of property be it land , capital equipment(means of production) or any thing elese even the OWNERS of rental goods take worse care of there rental properties than they do of there personal property

    he defends corperate profiteering …………HE is an “investor” is he not , and he owns stock in corperations right? well guess what “corperations” can’t exist in a “free market” they can’t compete , there over head it too high. and with out government protection(monopolies) they would eveporate. so by definition he CAN’T actualy suport a “free market econimy , it would ruin him!
    As to corperations as people. if a corperation is not a person( and it is NOT!) then why do we treat them as people by TAXING them in the first place? if it is not a person then it can’t owe taxes at all, an ” IT “cant take responsibility for ANYTHING.
    So who pays the taxes that get charged to corperations? PEOPLE do that is who , mostly the customers of the entity as TAXES are part of IT’s cost of doing buisness and as such are passed on to the users. when looked at this way you can see that corperations are tax collection entities , as the only possable reason for government to ALLOW them to exist is to tax them , and through them to tax the ENTIRE user base I.E. us .
    Petter Shiff is a rent seekier PURE and simple he “uses” the libriterian lable to hide behind and it is time , and past time to call out people like him who don’t talk the talk or even atempt to LIVE acording it’s most BASIC presepts.
    BUT Tom Woods and LVM? at worst they are blinded by the fact that the austrians were a “reaction” to what prussia had started as was marx and all the rest, to get any where NEAR a “free market” you need to go clear back to the middle ages pre renaissance econimies of europ or skip back past imperial rome to the iron age celtic econimies. (we in america tried but were continualy affected and eventualy coopted by the london banks) EVERY econimic “school” that you can name extends from and is a reaction to PRUSSIA’S take over of the germanic region and HOW they did it!(they originated the MIC econimy and made there living off of mercenary contracts) every other nation on the planet was then FORCED to copy it , or get run over by it, and the shape of the “modern”world is a reflection of how each country delt with the problem and how it delt with them.
    UNLESS this is properly under stood you are NOT actualy “looking out site the box” you are in fact looking at the inside of a “ponzi scheme”

  43. stacyherbert says:

    @Brad – look forward to it

    @Zach O’Brien – yep and I saw a bunch of liberals interviewing GOP delegates about their radical ideas. most of them having to do with Muslims, gays, women, etc. . . . oh and Jesus – many of the GOP delegates thought that we need to bring back Jesus in how we govern . . . though not the throw out the moneychangers and befriend the prostitutes Jesus but the other fictional version only they know about

  44. Zach OBrien says:

    Schiff is SLA to the core so I don’t know what the “lost his way” camp is smoking. Shiff in this short segment fails to make clear that he is absolutely anti-corporate-welfare, and agrees that most corporations are not only on welfare, but lobbying the state to create a hostile environment for competition. But once the state offers itself up as the thug-for-hire, businesses are forced to harness it’s influence, otherwise another company will, and use that influence against them. Government is force, if you put the option of the use of force as a bargaining chip in the middle of a table, someone is going to grab it.

  45. Zach OBrien says:

    Very true Stacy, both conventions are anomalies akin to the twilight zone.

  46. stacyherbert says:

    @kdt – yes, interesting; and you can see that throughout human history from between 5000 and 1000 years ago, that it has usually been the collection of men that got together and pillaged with the most convincing violence that gained power, territory and control – from Alexander the Great to Attilla the Hun to Genghis Khan; and it is not condoning this fact by pointing it out, it is merely observing a recurring story throughout history

  47. Billy-bob Garcia says:

    Have him on as a guest and debate him in person!

  48. gordo says:

    Woooo, finally Max and Stacy figure out the Schiff is nothing but a rent seeking fraud.

    How many years did that take?

    Progress never the less.

  49. Austin, Cal says:

    Schiff is doing a Borat! Are you guys kidding me?

  50. Flopot says:

    There are neoliberals hiding in libertarian clothing. It is a no brainer. There are also libertarians hiding in libertarian clothing but that’s another story Oo

  51. Kevin Eshbach says:

    @stacyherbert

    >>@kdt – yes, interesting; and you can see that throughout human history from
    >> between 5000 and 1000 years ago, that it has usually been the collection of men that
    >> got together and pillaged with the most convincing violence that gained power,
    >> territory and control – from Alexander the Great to Attilla the Hun to Genghis Khan;
    >> and it is not condoning this fact by pointing it out, it is merely observing a recurring
    >> story throughout history

    I would also like to add my two cents that these individuals also had more advanced warfare technology/techniques than their competitors too.

  52. John Robb says:

    @Flopot
    I thoroughly enjoyed your last comment. ‘Twas simple, insightful, and funny!

    @kdt
    You [as usual] have provided the other most insightful comment on this page thusfar. Taxing a corporation is bad policy. I’ll even add that “corporate profit” is not alone an important issue. Corporate ownership, contract, and property are important issues.

  53. logman says:

    peter schiff has the devils nose, peter talks out the devils nose

  54. Mabs says:

    @Stacy: I’m curious as to how Ron Paul escaped your filter for “fake Libertarians.”

    Simply on the basis of what he said he would do?

    Thanks.

  55. Mabs says:

    IOW, the newsletter stuff doesn”t trouble you Stacy?

  56. Mabs says:

    It all kind of ends up in the Slough of von Mises Despond, for me.

    What am I missing? Thanks.

  57. Mabs says:

    Stacy Herbert said: “–and yes if Ron Paul were in the race, we would vote for him because he would end the Fed, end the CIA, the MIC, the IRS . . . most of those claiming to be libertarian would actually expand some of those.”

    http://www.talk2action.org/story/2012/1/4/234938/0298

    @Stacy, I’ll say no more after this, but I’m flabbergasted. Last week it was all about taking down LvMI, but how do you scrub LvMI off Ron Paul to support him? This is so confusing.

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