Steve Keen: There Will Be Blood

Stacy Summary: The Economist magazine also forecasted uprising well before the so-called Arab Spring and long before the unrest came to Europe and the riots to the UK. With each occasion, however, the local media and those on the property ladder respond as if it were spontaneous evil that could never have been predicted by mathematical and historical certainty. Ignorance is only blissful in a bull market, in a Great Depression it’s suicidal. One major difference between now and the first Great Depression, however, is that in the West at the time we were much more self-sufficient and there were more farmers and local sources of food. With two or three BigAg command and controlling almost the entire US food supply, one wonders what it will be like after another 10 years of this Depression? And with the first generation of university fee debt slaves in the UK about to enter an economy with no jobs for them . . . well, we do, indeed, live in interesting times.

HARDtalk: You’ve also suggested that it could take a rising level of violence.

Steve Keen: The trouble is when you have a growing population and an economy that is used to growth and people expecting to get employed when they leave school and they find that in fact there are not enough new jobs coming on to handle the new entrants into the labor market, even if you grow slightly less than the rate of population change, that means that [you have] a population which you’re saying in the recent media is a lost generation. Well, that lost generation only has one outlet and that is frustration and violence. It is not the way to manage an effective society to be caught in a trap like this.

96 comments on “Steve Keen: There Will Be Blood
  1. Blah blah says:

    One site I view with interest (and a little envy at the great photographers there) is the urbex (urban exploration) site “28 Days Later“. What struck me when viewing the “Industrial Sites” section is that

    a) There was once a thriving heart to the UK economy and it was not of a trivial size and
    b) A lot of it is now rotting and rusting away.

    Great pictures but tinged with sadness to think about what has been lost.

  2. swell says:

    Thanks for posting this. I’ve been seeing references to this seemingly everywhere. It’s now in my to-view queue. I’ll get back to you with my comments on this later…

  3. KD says:

    …nice plug for obama at the end, totally discredits everything he said, clearly doesnt get it – it would take big govt to implement the idea and perpetuate the orwellian state – a nwo plan in disguise. I would recommend Lyndon LaRouche’s approach (www.larouchepac.com) sort out the thieves from the financial system and let them go bankrupt from their bad investment instead of a taxpayer bailout. Actually the constitution outlines a good conceptual framework of government, more countries should consider it as a model based on an asset backed monetary system as intended.

  4. F. Beard says:

    more countries should consider it as a model based on an asset backed monetary system as intended. KD

    Please don’t say you think gold is an asset? A shiny metal that spends its time locked in bank vaults earning nothing?

  5. Zach OBrien says:

    No Beard, Gold is MONEY.
    It’s a store of value, unit of account, means of exchange, and is fungible.
    Fiat money is not a store of value, so it sucks.
    Sell me your Gold to sound like you have some conviction in your paper warship.

  6. F. Beard says:

    It’s a store of value Zach

    What value? Thousands of tons of it have sat uselessly in bank vaults for decades if not hundreds of years. By the “If you haven’t used it in the last 6 months then throw it away” rule, gold should have been dumped years ago.

    As for fiat, it is not yet correctly implemented but when (if?) it is, it will make gold look very silly indeed.

  7. Ricin3000 says:

    Not much there I haven’t read or heard before, but nonetheless an interesting vid, if only because the hard truths are slowly seeping into the mainstream.

    He barely touched upon money creation though. But it is the most important thing to get IMHO: A sovereign country cannot spend merely the exact amount of its revenues without becoming more indebted. Compound interest rate. There’s your exponential curve. It starts real slow but its slope gets steeper all the time.

    I think as long as money is issued as debt/credit if you’re a sovereign and you want to be fiscally zero-sum you must essentially shrink your economy. And at an exponential rate. Just to make up for compounded intrest. It’s basic math. Another way to fill the gap is of course to steal from another sovereign (or a private entity outside your club). Eventually that becomes war.

    And there you have the bankster’s (read: IMF or troika if you prefer) receipe for baking their cake. The baking soda that inflates the cake was put in the dough together with the eggs they broke last time they were forced to reset the system at the time the new system got put online.

    No wonder Marie-Antoinette said “let them eat cake”. She probably even meant well :-)

  8. Mike Hunt III says:

    @FBeard. Your suggestion that gold does not store value is ludicrous. Sometimes your comments and arguments are worthwhile, but your hatred of gold is bordering on bizarre. As for your six month rule, are you suggesting freeze dried food with a 25 year shelf life has no value if not used within six months? Please!

  9. N.M. Rothschild says:

    The banks should be nationalized and the debt turned into equity. The are to sides to every stupid loan. You can’t just reward speculators for their bad investments and have their debts forgiven and the assets given to them. What about all those who were crowded out of the market by the speculators. His solution is MORAL HAZARD writ large and tinged with a Christian type usury complex. Poor exploited borrower and parasitic banker. The biggest borrowers are the corporations and super-rich.

  10. Keehotee says:

    @blah blah – cool site. creepy/sad

  11. Paddy says:

    used to subscribe to the Economist but post-9/11 they really seemed keen on ratcheting up the Islamophobia and general shite you expect from the PTB so I unsubscribed and told them exactly why I was doing so. Didn’t get a response so I thought well fuck you I’ll just d0 my own research on the intertubes for free.

  12. F. Beard says:

    but your hatred of gold is bordering on bizarre. Mike Hunt III

    My hatred is of tyranny and gold is a traditional tool of the usury and counterfeiting class. Gold is little more than a means to establish a money monopoly.

    But use gold (or anything else) all you want for private debts but fiat is the ONLY ethical money form for government debts.

  13. F. Beard says:

    As for your six month rule, are you suggesting freeze dried food with a 25 year shelf life has no value if not used within six months? Mike Hunt III

    No, of course not. And truth be told, I have never tried the 6-month rule but my trusty cubemate recommended it. In my case, I would use a 5 or 10 year rule. :)

  14. At the heart, I do believe that the concept of a “modern jubilee” is essentially a structured product and not a true jubilee. Nonetheless, this is the most politically expedient solution that I have encountered and therefore I believe it will be adopted. Here are my takes* on Keen from the past week…

    http://tradewithdave.com/?p=8507

    http://tradewithdave.com/?p=8518

    http://tradewithdave.com/?p=8549

    Dave Harrison

  15. Jack S says:

    So, let me understand his thinking. Individuals like me who have worked, saved, invested wisely and did not overextend myself when it comes to debt , and who rents , get nothing, but the person who buys expensive cars, takes expensive vacations , over extends himself financially, makes bad investment decisions and ends up not being able to pay his mortgage gets money from the government to pay off his debt and continues to lives in a house because its whats good for the whole system? He says its not their fault, its the systems fault. This rewards individual failure. Why should my tax money go to a strangers so they can stay and live in a house while I live in a small apartment. I say screw this guy.

  16. Al Kyder says:

    I like your summary better than steve keens @stacyherbert

    Here comes the wave of defaults in Australia.

    They are preparing for something huge.

    Just like the US post uses SDR pricing well that has already come a long time ago. Now they are going to start the defaults again. Australia looks ripe for foreclosures in the firsty quatre 2012

  17. stacyherbert says:

    @Jack S – you truly are beyond ignorant if you think you aren’t already paying for the bankers bad loans to people who could never expect to pay those debts back; step away from your hatred for your neighbours and think a little more honestly about what has happened

  18. F. Beard says:

    So, let me understand his thinking. Individuals like me who have worked, saved, invested wisely and did not overextend myself when it comes to debt , and who rents , get nothing, Jack S

    Savers would receive an equal amount so quit your whining.

    Hi Stacy!

  19. F. Beard says:

    Shouldn’t you be in bed?

  20. kdt says:

    gold has value BECAUS we use it for money and always have (not the other way round). even when the banks claim it is not so ,they still treat it like money. the guy in that vid earlier said the comex is a fractional reserve bank in esence. BUT if this were not true golds value would be industrial only “best window tint in the galixy’ silver is the same way. value is always determined by USE the vinitian silver /gold carry trade could not have worked other wise.

  21. Mike Hunt III says:

    @stacyherbert. For those of us living in a van down by the river, or with no mortgage, or a fully paid mortgage or renting, we should not be responsible for either the bankers OR the people not paying their mortgages. Two wrongs does not make a right.

  22. F. Beard says:

    @Mike Hunt III,

    Steve Keen is recommending that savers get an equal bailout too. Are ye deef, man?

  23. Mike Hunt III says:

    I guess I stand corrected. I watched the video several days ago. Alzheimers?

  24. F. Beard says:

    Alzheimers? Mike Hunt III

    Probably not. It has never occurred to most savers that they can (and should) be bailed out too.

  25. Chris says:

    I wish the establishment would do what this Steve Keen suggests. I could use some help after these banks screwed up the world. I didn’t borrow more then I could pay back. I didn’t take ten trips to Hawaii I couldn’t afford. A modern day debt jublie would be a great thing to see. Too bad almost all the politicians are Keynesians.

  26. kdt says:

    @jack s hmmm what part of ponzi scheem dont you get dude??? think…………………..if it is ALL a swindle? wich it most certainly is . how did you invest so WISELY as to be so damn smug. no god damn BROWER walked in to a fucking bank and held a gun to a loan oficers head and got a loan, what did happen AND i remember it VIVIDLY was a HARD SELL THE LIKES OF WICH THE WORLD HAS NEVER SEEN it was done to push money threw the banks FROM the investment pools in to what ever p.o.s. money pit they could find they did this to colect FEE’S the fuckers so you see Jack S the fee’s were the whole point if the normal laws were to be aplyed here we all are entitled to RETURN of all procedes of a CRIMNAL interprise that is my payments and the return of all invester funds frankly steve’s idea is not suficent any thing that leaves ANY of them not AT LEAST in prison for the rest of there lives is too fucking little, people have killed themselves a country wide exec. killed his WHOLE famly then himself ………………… this is not about what the public did ok some people made bad choices but the fact is someone went TO them in most cases and talked them in to it and it is high time to expect better form PROFESIONALS in the steward ship of there trade.

  27. chArles says:

    @ stacyherbert you aren’t gonna win this argument from the “Moral hazard” drones…sorry they are Petit-bourgeois…they will have to be destroyed, luckily Market forces are slowly but surely destroying them…10 years of forced stagnation, austerity and debt deleveraging will obliterate the Petit-bourgeois, they’ll try to save their social status and privileged by running into the arms of some form of State Fascism…unfortunately for them Financial Capitalism is Hellbent on some form of NeoFudalism…the Petit-bourgeois ain’t really good at picking cotton or stocking shelves at Wal Mart, so they’ll just be done away with, maybe as a last bone/peace offering the Bankers will throw them to the proletariat letting them rip these folks from the smug moral superiority of white picket fences and manicured lawns

    THE DAY OF JUBILEE

    it’s the only answer http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/12/02/debt-slavery-%E2%80%93-why-it-destroyed-rome-why-it-will-destroy-us-unless-it%E2%80%99s-stopped/

    hope you try and get Keen or Micheal Hudson on your show…Hudson’s interview on The Real News was brutal about what Obama is truly doing economically http://michael-hudson.com/2011/11/systemic-deficit-strategy/

    and yes I still haunt your site…just don’t comment as much….the bots/drones are tiresome

  28. kdt says:

    sorry been waching too much ann b. vids , but damnit …………………….

  29. Glen says:

    That was the worst interview that I have ever seen Steve Keen do. Most debts will be paid through steady inflation, but its how that inflation is created that matters most. The Australian government gave the majority of families $900 when the GFC first hit and I think it was a on the right track but probably created through more debt.

  30. snoop diddy says:

    the great thing about Keen’s suggestion is it cancels out some of the fraud which is more than the legal system is achieving. the chance of a debt jubilee of course is quite a sensible suggestion but in our universe has point zero one percent probability.

  31. Ricin3000 says:

    Yes, one very urgent point made by several folks here: A jubilee of some sorts will be needed but equally if not more importantly justice will be needed.

    And a recreation of or a new set of laws if they have been obliterated or bypassed.

    Fraud must be punished. Especially fraud on a scale of ultimately thousands or millions or billions of deaths. Heads will have to roll. No metaphor. The Chinese get it, when will we?

    If the fraud isn’t punished a jubilee is useless and probably detrimental for the 99.99% out there.

    Best regards,

    R3K

  32. snoop diddy says:

    well, a leverage against monetised fraud anyway.

    @Glen,
    good points, it should definitely be created without more national debt payable to speculators (which globally is chiefly central banks, no-one speculates like central banks!)

  33. Mini US says:

    Quote of the decade…

    “Ignorance is only blissful in a bull market, in a Great Depression it’s suicidal.”

    Stacy Herbert :)

  34. swell says:

    Still processing queue, not here yet.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGCwHsKPm4

  35. swell says:

    The (non-orthodox) economists are soon to become the new rock stars, we’ve heard it said. Look no further than Rolling Stone, to know that’s true.

    Agreed with previous commenters, we’ve heard Michael Hudson address this Jubilee history and theory here before.

    Max tried to broach the looming war aspects with Yanis Varoufakis, but that economist failed to address those myriad social, historical and philosophical implications underlying all of this.

    The Military Industrial Complex, and the Security Industrial Complex are firmly entrenched and currently consume major slices of the economic pie. One cannot ignore their role in shaping world events. They will not simply go away gently into the night. We know they are working feverishly to reshape the Internet in order to curb our present exchanges of ideas.

    Coming major economic dislocations won’t transpire in a vacuum. They will trigger protest. Contingency plans already exist to quell that push-back. Please explain to me how anyone that can glimpse beyond the horizon, can fail to see the violence which lies ahead?

    I do not believe that the banksters ever believed they would fail or that the EZ would collapse. I certainly don’t believe that they favor the EZ collapsing or that that would serve their interests. Their interests are served by mortgaging the member states to the hilt and foreclosing on the infrastructure , completing privatization and then disposing of the riff-raff.

  36. karl says:

    thefair way to do it would be to give EVERYONE a set amount
    but if you are in debt you must pay off the debt
    those who have less debt keep the most so in that way savers ARE rewarded
    the way the systrem is now savers ARE paying everything top the speculators

  37. karl says:

    I still do not agree with his suggestion though
    all I WANT is a free market
    let the banks and the people who took on too muchy debt fail
    then both learn a lesson
    its more than just the system failing
    society as a whole failed
    everyone got greedy not just the banks
    that greed needs to be punished
    I say let the freee market sort it out
    no more bailouts or printing
    economic growth is destroyingthye planet
    we need a few years of negatrive growth

  38. Jack S says:

    Dear Stacy, I don’t hate my neighbors, but I saw them take out home equity loans, buy nice things and live beyond their means. Are you saying this is OK. The bankers didn’t force them to take out home equity loans. “I’m beyond ignorant”? I know we all are paying for this mess and bankers are evil but a individual that signs for a loan and knows that the payments will increase in the future and when that time comes does not have the income or resources to make that payment is the ignorant one. I watch you and Max and like your show but you mention nothing about personal responsibility. Thanks for the personal attack.

  39. Jimbo says:

    FBeard: “Savers would receive an equal amount so quit your whining.”

    You’ve already been shown that Keen’s bailout will favor the reckless and the debtors over the prudent and the savers, so stop your lying.

    Swim with the tide and don’t use your tyrannical fiat money to try to change the tide, because all of us who love freedom do swim with the tide and will be washed out to sea. That is the goal of a tyrant like you: kill all the freedom-loving people and claim your crime is “for the common good”.

    A unit of exchange which can be manipulated the the main tool of the tyrant. Gold is the money of the free. And quit that it’s shiny; don’t let that distract you. If the government stopped its tyranny and went with the only constitutional payment for government debts then gold wouldn’t stay in the volts. You misrepresent gold with the intent to deceive; you are a liar.

    Your response to truth, as ever , will be lies, iron age myths and a desire to impose tyranny.

  40. Jack S says:

    Hey kdt, dude, you sound like you lost money in real estate. It was just another bubble like tulip,30’s, tech, gold, etc. You run with the herd you may go off the cliff with them. Its only human nature to blame someone else for ones own fault. Did that loan officer stick a gun to your head to sign the mortgage. I don’t think so. People do irrational things when it comes to money. I lost money in the tech bubble. The brokers and analysts worked for their own best interests and jacked up those tech stocks prices to insane heights. Afterwards I didn’t blame anybody except myself. I was greedy. I live on the west coast , USA and saw first hand the “irrational exuberance” of neighbors buying multiple houses to flip and they ended up losing it all. They blame the other guy.

  41. stacyherbert says:

    @Jack S – the job of issuing loans is with the bankers, it’s in the job description; they are supposed to be the alleged experts and determining risk, including the risk that the person taking out the home equity loan will not be able to repay; at 127% of personal debt to GDP, any 10 year old could have seen the basic math that these loans were unpayable, but these highly paid bankers are now forcing taxpayers to pay for their mistakes; if you don’t think 0% interest rates on your savings and 5.5% inflation are the tax you are presently spending to bailout the bankers from their bad decisions then sorry but you are beyond ignorant:

    ig·no·rant/ˈignərənt/
    Adjective:
    Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
    Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: “ignorant of astronomy”.

    You are ignorant about the bailout you are already giving not only your dumb neighbour but the banking class who knew full well what they were doing when they issued loans they knew couldn’t be repaid.

  42. Blow_In says:

    “The world is certainly short of jobs, but it has never been, and never will
    be, short of work.”

    A skilled honest worker will be more valuable to the aristocracy than a thousand economists with advanced degrees.

  43. Jack S says:

    Dear Stacy, are you telling me NO ONE should take any personal responsibility for signing on the dotted line. Of course you can’t admit to this, because that would not be good for your show. You are a very defensive woman and calling me ignorant again shows your lack of class. This is my last comment . Have a nice day

  44. karl says:

    Jack s
    100 percent agree
    system is corrupt as people allowed it to be
    if noone used huge l,oans to spoeculate then we would not be in this mess
    the people who took out huge loans were in bed with the sysetm
    noone forced them as you say to take this debt on
    I recognized this and refused
    I just bgoiught my house wiuth cash as I sacrificed and saved unlike the rest of the feckless

  45. karl says:

    Again I just6 say let the free market work
    what have you got against that Stacey?
    you know the more you speak the more communist you sound
    the soltuion is let the free market work
    thats all
    thats the fairest way
    banks go under and house prices drop to levels we can all afford
    why bailout anyone?

  46. karl says:

    Stacey
    I think Jack S knows of the bailouts he is giving he3nce he is on this site
    we all kn ow that
    but what you and keen are proposing is just another bailout
    All Jack and I are saying is stop all bailouts let the free market work
    Its the only fair way

  47. karl says:

    Stacey if jack is ignoranjt then you are naive
    Banks make money from loans of course they are not going to be responsible and not give it to people who shouldn’t get loans.
    They just did whjat they could get away with
    The people taking out loans should also know better
    they are adults
    the banks constantly called me and asked me if I wanted more credit
    I know they are loan sharks soi I said f*ck off
    we are not responsible for everyone else
    now as a saver I am getting screwed whilst these feckless get bailed out
    as I say if thge3 free mnarket works they go under as well as banks
    so what
    thats capitlaism
    thats the risk they took
    yoiu cannot have capitalism on the way up and socialism on the way down as you are advocating

  48. F. Beard says:

    Gold is the money of the free. Jimbo

    Then use it all you want, but for private debts only. As for government money, that should be pure fiat for both ethical and practical reasons.

  49. Glen says:

    Lots of interesting arguments here with some very opposing views. Supose it depends on what you see money as. Personally I don’t see gold as money only because money is a concept whereas gold is a great physical representation of money and hence I own some.
    Money to me is just a reciept for a promise (ie promissory note) that has some trust backing it up. That is why the current fiat system is useless at the moment because there is no trust in all of those promises. After all, who should trust the bankers that have a near monopoly on creating money thats only backed by a promise that they will somehow swindle you.

    It is pointless argueing over how debt/promises can be written off or inflated away while the banks still have the power to create money. I am glad that people recognise and are discussing the debt problem but the number 1 priority should be taking the money creation ability away from the banks (ie 100% reserves, audited) and giving it back to we the people. Only then can we begin to find solutions to the massive overcomitments that the west has made with its unservicable promises.

  50. F. Beard says:

    You’ve already been shown that Keen’s bailout will favor the reckless and the debtors over the prudent and the savers, so stop your lying. Jimbo

    Actually, the only people who would be hurt would be those who are expecting to profit off the misery of others. I believe the expression is “misery merchant.”

  51. karl says:

    Glen
    plus 100
    the banks lending out money they do not have is the ROOT cause

  52. F. Beard says:

    I am glad that people recognise and are discussing the debt problem but the number 1 priority should be taking the money creation ability away from the banks (ie 100% reserves, audited) and giving it back to we the people. Glen

    I agree with “100% reserve” lending but by itself it would be massively deflationary as existing credit was paid off with no new credit to replace it. The solution is to combine the ban on credit creation with a bailout of the entire population (including savers) metered to replace that credit as it is paid off (destroyed).

  53. karl says:

    F beard
    we have all suffered misery because of the feckless
    its about time the feckless had their fair share

  54. F. Beard says:

    its about time the feckless had their fair share karl

    An 88 year old lady, a friend of mine, who has worked all her life since the age of 14 and who would love to work now even after cancer surgery is unemployed because of this Depression.

    Many innocents are being hurt. Forget the “feckless” and think about them.

  55. F. Beard says:

    “The world is certainly short of jobs, but it has never been, and never will
    be, short of work.”
    Blow_In

    True. The problem is ill-distribution of wealth and income, not lack of jobs. Most people will find their own work to do if money is not a problem.

  56. karl says:

    F beard
    yeah and she is a saver right?
    I’m thinkinmg of the savers i e the ones who worked andsaved hard
    they are being screwed by zero intrestr and inflation
    let the markets reset and we have negative inflation
    stockls decline but currency reamins in tact
    print and you destroty the curency
    the saver needs and wantsw deflation
    on ly the speculators need inflation
    rigtht now I want defaltion
    surely its ther least painful

  57. Glen says:

    “The solution is to combine the ban on credit creation with a bailout of the entire population (including savers) metered to replace that credit as it is paid off (destroyed).”

    I think your right, and thats why I suggested that the Australian goverment was on the right track by giving families a $900 cheque to help pay down the debt (I would like to term it trickle up economics ;) but they used more bank debt money to do it. The problem that we face is that govermnments have no more trust then the banks do, plus do we really want to give the power of money creation to an institution that already has the monopoly on force. For money to have value we need trust, but it seems to be in short supply.
    The problem with gold is that although it does have more trust in it than fiat currencies, the ultra rich have already won that monopoly game. Its time to reset the board.

  58. F. Beard says:

    yeah and she is a saver right? karl

    Not really, she is a giver. She works for her own self-respect and to be able to give.

  59. karl says:

    If the system relied on zero inflation ie 100 percent reserve banking people would not need to constantly be employed
    they could save and then take time out
    people would work when society needed it or they wanted to
    at the moment YOU have to work to support the PONZI scheme

    who wants to work more than they should?

  60. daniel says:

    that interviewer was a condescending bitch.

  61. Bruce says:

    Very odd how Steve has to sit stiffly in his chair while she introduces her guest at the start of the show while he is in view. I’d be taking the opportunity to spin around in circles on that fine chair.

    Well that was going well until he mentioned that Obama has charisma. Obama has about as much charisma as a cardboard cut-out. Everything that comes out of his mouth is airy scripted plop. He’s a bad actor, at best.

  62. Bruce says:

    Yes, the interviewer was the usual useless bitch that mainstream media loves.

  63. F. Beard says:

    plus do we really want to give the power of money creation to an institution that already has the monopoly on force. Glen

    Do you want that force propping up the value of gold or any other private money form? The solution is separate government and private money supplies per Matthew 22:16-22 (“Render to Caesar”). Government money should not be legal tender or otherwise privileged for private debts.

  64. karl says:

    @ F beard
    what ever
    wwhat would she rather have high or low prices?
    let the market sink to its true level and prices go down
    more bailoutrs just mena inflation
    I’m sure your old dear would rather have cheaper Spuds than expensive ones

  65. karl says:

    I say again the only fair way out is to let thedebt default and the market to find its true value.
    Keens recommendation is socialism
    noone learns thewir lesson
    thats what the free market is there for to teach people lessons

  66. F. Beard says:

    wwhat would she rather have high or low prices? karl

    What good are low prices if one has no money to spend? That is just cruel mockery.

  67. F. Beard says:

    thats what the free market is there for to teach people lessons karl

    There is nothing free market about our banking system. It is a government backed/enforced counterfeiting cartel.

  68. karl says:

    “There is nothing free market about our banking system. It is a government backed/enforced counterfeiting cartel.”

    yes becasuse the bailouts were al,lowesd
    look if establishmnets who were levearged 30 times haD GONE UNDER THEY WOULDN’T LEVERAGE THEMSELVES again would they
    but you are talking about replacing Fascism with socialism
    THE ONLY FAIR WAY is to let the chips fall where they may ie let the free market work

  69. F. Beard says:

    but you are talking about replacing Fascism with socialism karl

    That’s a laugh. I believe in a true free market plus an adequate safety net which btw would not be used much because a true free market would produce general prosperity.

  70. karl says:

    F beard
    yeah right you want a free market where people who took on too much debt get bailed out
    yeah right

  71. F. Beard says:

    yeah right you want a free market where people who took on too much debt get bailed out karl

    What part of counterfeiting cartel don’t you get? Those who did not borrow from the cartel were priced out of the housing market FOREVER by those who did. What else were people supposed to do but borrow? Rent and wait (like vultures) for a Great Depression to lower housing prices?

  72. Glen says:

    Karl, I hear you on or point about the savers being screwed as my parents are now having their term deposit retirement savings being devalued by Australia’s recent low interest policy switch (Prof Keen wouldn’t have been surprised by this I’m sure).

    Sadly deflation will still hurt savers as the deterioration of their community will have massive impacts on them and their pieces of paper will not save them.

    Inflation hurts savers that leave their savings as bits of paper but they at least have the opportunity to move their savings into some assets that have real ongoing value. unfortunately most assets such as property and stocks/shares are overvalued at the moment mainly because of fractional reserve lending. Once the fractional reserve problem is taken care of (wishful thinking) and asset prices are at more realistic level, inflation can be a useful tool of off setting the deflationary impacts of deleveraging. But the inflation would have to have to be trickle up inflation where a trusted money creation system could give periodic benefits to everyone equally for a few years or until debt is paid down. In a free market the inflation should work itself upward from minimum wages to the price of consumer and industrial goods and energy until it finds some sort of harmony.
    F. Beard, I don’t want the government to have the monopoly on money creation either but there is much work to do to build a TRUSTED system/organisation to take on the task. Seems to me that the opposite of the Eurozone experiment might work, ie regional currencys where the level of trust can be gauged by the average inhabitant through local networks.

  73. karl says:

    What part of counterfeiting cartel don’t you get? Those who did not borrow from the cartel were priced out of the housing market FOREVER by those who did. What else were people supposed to do but borrow? Rent and wait (like vultures) for a Great Depression to lower housing prices?

    yes and that wouldhave happened had the free market worked

  74. karl says:

    F beard had the free market worked years ago the bubble would never have happened
    By free I mean the market sets all interest rates nota central bank
    this all started with long term capital managemnet being bailed out in 97
    since then the crooks know they can do whate ver they like and get bailed out

  75. snoop diddy says:

    @karl,
    apparently the market is never free ;-)

  76. Glen says:

    Or it just doesn’t realize its free and always was. unfortunatly just easily maniplulated and controlled.

  77. karl says:

    well according to this guy we are all f”*cked anyway

    basicalkly due to their being too many people wanting too many resources on a finmite planet
    I agree
    many will die
    I expect the bleedinmg hearts will come out and say I cannot say this its all the bankers fault but tell me hiw we can all have tow cars, Ipads and two houses on a finite planet with 7 billion people

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/chris-martenson-discusses-future-europe-and-global-economy

  78. hgh says:

    Inflation is inevitable (I wonder that they call themselves hard talk and don’t ask this kind of thing). The only thing (that remains) is who will take the burden of this. The current elites wouldn’t allow Steven Keen’s solution, it would undermine their position and would lead to their assets loose it value. It will happen however. The pain associated to Depression will last long (fully agree to Keen’s point of view). All the elites are trying is to slow its own assets’ meltdown. Probably the most of politicians are in their pockets (in that so-called democracies of the West). So, as Keen said, we have to wait for a funeral of the current system. It doesn’t really matter it will be revolution., civil war, dissolution of some form (of the EU or the USA), chaos… The current political class must be wiped out and the (owning and money) elites must to be punished for their crucial stake in the current depression. Otherwise, you won’t regain any social cohesion or proper social structure to move on.

  79. kdt says:

    jack jack jack bubles = ponzi scheem dipshit and that sort of finance had no place ANY where neer my house or any one eleses i’m an electrican not some waistoid like your self i work for my bread and if i conducted my trade the way the finance industry has i would be in prison!!!! litraly, becaus if i deviate in ANY way from the n.e.c. I’m lible for damages, njuries , and death PERSONALY espicaly here in calli where I have to carry a certifacation and licence to even work for someone else let alown contract wich requires an additional licence from consumer afairs so if i seem to feel like i’v goten screwed it is this ,NOT the 2/3 loss in equity i took on a house i picked up at 120,000 under apraised value this is not a function of any sort of sane market and the insanity came from out side and if your here in calli you know this idea we could rent insted is BULLSHIT the owners of rentals were up to the same stupidity as the rest of the market i moved in to a rental only to get a 30 notice 30 days later stating the house wae geting sold out from under me WTF i was still unpacking, rentals here are STILL to high becaus there all carrying ponzi paper so GOAWAY and get a clue you dipshit your existence offends me in fact get out of my state i can smell a honyoker a mile away!!!!

  80. Kent says:

    The Austrian Schoolers all predicted the financial crisis years in advance. Hell, even Ron Paul did in 2003. Nationalizing anything won’t fix anything, nor will more regulation. Allowing the market to work will, let banks and other businesses fail when they make bad and stupid bets.

  81. Kent says:

    Also strongly disagree with writing off mortgage debt, why should someone like me who’s gone without a house for ten years to save up and pay cash now see his cash wiped out to pay off the mortgages of those who purchased irresponsibly. You reward irresponsible behaviour you’ll get more of it. Just ask the bankers.

  82. karl says:

    Kent
    spot on
    thjats what we all want
    NO MORE BAILOUTS
    Imprison the bankers for fraud

  83. karl says:

    kent exactly
    anyone who participated in the bubble deserves to be taught a lesson about excessive leverage

  84. Kent says:

    You’re right Karl, individuals who engaged in the fraud should be jailed, and property used for restitution. I’m no economist but I used to discuss what was going on, largely in the US, with my wife back in 2003 and tell her it was all going to come crashing down. Sometimes I really hate to be right.

  85. kdt says:

    also ALL i needed was a refinance away from the ponzi paper not “help” but the mess made in lending is holding me hostage in a debt slavery situation wich i REFUSE to inable,and any one doing so is a retard!!!!

    seriously jack?
    Dear Stacy, I don’t hate my neighbors, but I saw them take out home equity loans, buy nice things and live beyond their means. Are you saying this is OK. The bankers didn’t force them to take out home equity loans. “I’m beyond ignorant”? I know we all are paying for this mess and bankers are evil but a individual that signs for a loan and knows that the payments will increase in the future and when that time comes does not have the income or resources to make that payment is the ignorant one. I watch you and Max and like your show but you mention nothing about personal responsibility. Thanks for the personal attack.

    jesus h christ the only way to get the phone to stop ringing was to rip it off the wall the cold calls were so thick i disconected my answering machine FOR A YEAR when i pluged it back in ,it was still the same the banks ARE responsable for this not the public they LIED about terms of the loans they lied about the market they are responsable for there bad loans not the people who are victoms of a ponzi scheem
    californians are sick of people like you, gtfo you honyoker p.o.s. go back where you came from, if you were born here go back to where your parents were thrown out of, they have probly forgoten why by now it should be safe.

  86. kdt says:

    wow lots of sheeple today

  87. kdt says:

    @kent and karl im an electrican im too bussy keeping your wall out lets from killing you to be able to keep track of exactly what is going on in other trades, i need to be able to EXPECT that they are acting in the same way twords me!! if not this system will not function wich is why it is falling apart. becaus guess what were not idiots if there is nothing to be gained from working in this system then we will rip it down around you WE built it we can destroy it too,” scrap “salvage is already underway and excellerating as things get worse, way to great planing hold there feet to a fire they will pay god damnit

  88. Daniel S says:

    Keen handles this deliberately dense interviewer very well.

  89. Kent says:

    BTW, The Economist also saw this coming because of the housing bubble in 2003. They even listed those countries most at risk. Its not like no one saw it coming.

  90. Danny Cunnington says:

    @F Beard, As a student of the bible you should be aware of the Matthew quote and it’s context. Jesus was answering a query by some slime-ball who was trying to trick him into an inflammatory statement in the hope of having the Romans arrest him. “Render unto Caesar”….. Has been used by such people as Hitler and other to justify various thefts. As you can see if you read all of this biblical incident, Jesus was neither advocating policy nor was he talking about precious metals. He was answering a question about a metallic coin that had been minted with Caesar’s head on it. The only coins in Judea at that time that didn’t have Caesar’s head on them were silver shekels that were used to pay temple taxes. Silver shekels mean “she-kel* It’s ancient hebrew for bushel of wheat/barley/grain and was interchangeable with it. A silver based money backed up by 27 KGs of grain Approx.

    Your token money argument has a serious reality problem (Although the theory is sound). Any new system will only come after the old system has gone to zero wiped out everybody and the masses in a state of shock and horror at the betrayal of it all.

    Trying to advocate for a paper unbacked token money system will be quite a dangerous thing to do on any street that has lamp posts and people standing around with a rope. A quick check of history following any token money system collapse reveals that confidence can only be restored with a commodity money. It’s really rather obvious why this is the case faced with “the facts on the ground”.

    Once commodity money is established and after a period of stability, then a soft token system could work and would be beneficial but this will only be allowed if it was parallel to the commodity money giving it users a choice to retreat back into commodity money as a store of value at the first sign of incompetence or abuse. Binary money systems mutually police each other because people have a choice. Good real free market systems work best with both hard and soft currencies.

    Your suggestion that commodity money can only be used privately and not for government is also a non starter. Governments will have to take whatever they can to cover their costs and expenses and initially there will be no trusted token system so how can any government even form in the first place?

    I heard Bill Still mention this point and I don’t understand the rationale behind it. I’m a researcher mainly of history and as you can see, also the bible as a historical reference.
    Feel free to educate me.

  91. F. Beard says:

    Feel free to educate me. Danny Cunnington

    Though the Lord warned us about centralized authority in 1 Samuel 8, He also said we would stuck with it if we chose it anyway. And so we are. And we are commanded to obey it in Romans 13:1-7:

    1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor. Romans 13:1-7

    I suggest libertarians quit rooting for the destruction of government (contrary to Scripture) and seek instead to remove the injustice from it.

  92. karl says:

    Danny
    I agree
    Bill still thinks all the worlds problems can be solved with printing debt free money
    thats what Zimbabwe did
    o
    utter dross
    its way more complicated than he thinks
    I guess debt free money will also magically conjure up enough resources to keep 7 billion on the planet rich

  93. Ricin3000 says:

    I’m sorry to have to say this but if no one else will, I will:

    Stacy, you need to apologize to a certain person and you know it.

    That was really out of bounds.

    Luv ya still,

    R3K

  94. Al Kyder says:

    @ kdt

    Nice work there :)

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