On the Edge with Jeff Berwick

We interview Jeff Berwick of Dollar Vigilante.

53 comments on “On the Edge with Jeff Berwick
  1. Davor Dumic says:

    The guy was desperate in their responses. Max set him a difficult question.
    This man is totally hollow. He repeated the sentence as a parrot that is collected with thirty web commentators in the field of economics.
    Max, if you want to continue as a serious man throw these types of repeater platitudes from your program.

  2. OlympiaLogger says:

    PRIMO interview !!!

    Backing the camel(s) out of the tent but leaving his nose is what got us HERE !!!

    Jeff wins this one…

  3. Tao Jonesing says:

    Jeff wins this one…

    No, he doesn’t. The guy is a religious zealot who mouths the dogma of his religion without any true understanding of the world (e.g., he says that fiat currencies are pure abstractions because they are not backed by anything, but all money is pure abstraction; even when money is “backed” by gold, that backing is merely a promise to give gold in exchange for the note; there’s nothing that says the promise will be kept).

    Moreover, the guy claims to be from the Austrian School, but he does not understand the Austrian School’s definition of inflation. He only focuses on the supply of money and refuses to consider the supply of credit. As Max said, the supply of credit is collapsing much faster than supply of money is increasing. The only reason why that is not obvious to everyone is because the banks are being allowed to mark the bad debts they hold to myth instead of their market value of zero.

  4. Youri Carma says:

    I agree with Max on the last point ‘You need a referee otherwise you hanb’t got a game’

    But you gotto love the guy ‘ I am an Anarchist’ aahahaahahahaahh!

  5. OlympiaLogger says:

    Being backed by honest weights and measures is not an abstraction.
    In fact it’s scriptural, but to an anti-religion zealot like you, only your dogma is absolute.

    God, what a bigot.

  6. Dan says:

    Jeff means well, but may not have the most technical savvy of events. Max gave him some real hardball questions there that many would have difficulty in providing a coherent response. If Jeff were to review this interview I’m sure he would agree that credit contraction is deflationary in respect to “money supply” as it is both currency and credit that determine overall purchasing power. I’m a bit surprised that Max is taking the deflationary route here and not recognizing rising food and energy costs when he says that prices are not rising (though true enough for housing and commodities as of late). I believe Mike Maloney has discussed the idea of deflation occurring just before the hyperinflation takes hold, much in the same way a beach becomes calm and exposed shortly before the tidal wave hits. Jeff definitely has his heart in the right place. Check out his recent interviews with Lew Rockwell and Stefan Molyneux.

  7. I think Max was playing devils advocate with the deflationary stance. We can see that all the bailouts and “stimulus” is preventing the deflationary collapse people keep going on about from happening.

  8. John Robb says:

    Fun, fun, fun! Max was contentious out of the gate, made it a debate, a game. As an interviewer, Max did well to let Jeff open with painting a picture. It was a crude painting, and Max did well in its critique. Every point Max made was worthy but the last. The last was suicide…

    The beauty of today’s match, Keiser vs. Berwick, was its lack of referee.

    That’s what allowed it to be a truly good game all along.

    Today’s Hanson trophy goes to Berwick…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7c69r3mD8w

  9. Robin Hood says:

    What a dork. What anarchists and libertarians don’t understand, is that in their economic ideology, the 1% will inevitably and eventually turn the 99% into slaves. Hey! That’s what we have now. Congratulation you guys won.

    Oh, but wait a minute, Robin Hood is off to Occupy San Francisco. Stay tuned. The game is not over. We the people will reclaim our Democracy from Wall Street. Join us.

    One last point before I go off to the Federal Reserve on Market St. Communists? Seriously? The reason you see anti-capitalist signs, is because the 99% are starting to figure out that the current model of corporate capitalism, in existence for over 500 years, and based on the exploitation of natural and human resources, is evil by design and must be changed. Toodaloo.

  10. Mike B says:

    Max Keiser doesn’t understand the definition of inflation relevant to 99% of people. Simply it’s the price of goods and services rising on a day to day basis. If it cost more for food, clothing, fuel, insurance, medical/dental, taxes, etc. tomorrow then today, its inflation. Anyone hear about the price of peanut butter rising 25%?? That’s inflation to me. (Though the said on the news it has to do with the weather or something, which is bull.)
    Watch John Williams from Shadow Stats, he knows what’s coming.

  11. A Gardener says:

    Really good discussion. The future sure is’nt looking rosie.
    Actually I think Max and Jeff seemed to agree on the really important points.
    Well I for one am ordering more physical silver this weekend.
    ( Also intend to dig over a couple of vegetable patches )

  12. Ducksfeet says:

    Berwick is a typical finacial terrorist that thinks government is the problem when the gov. has been hyjacked by Wall Street and the banks. Look gov. is there for all to make sure that controls are in place to keep everyone honest and doing there job of working for certain goals without short cuts.If a man walks into a bank and holds it up and steals the money he is frauding the system and will go to jail because there was nothing produced to earn that money. Now Wall Street does the same by stealing and defrauding people of there wealth but because they have there men is charge of government then they getaway with it and it has been doing this for some time now only because the government has allowed it. Would you allow a fox to gaurd a hen house.
    If the laws that are out there are only enforced on mainstreet and not Wall Street then this fiasco will continue untill the wealth of us all is worthless.

  13. IAMSLATTERY says:

    Max – you got a point about needing a referee.

    With no usury on the creation of currency I believe that gives the ref all the powers he needs and a true competition of human/society’s potential will begin as WE will no longer be worried if a note of currency is actually sacred.

    -NO?

    Come on now –
    you go off on me, say I am medicated and delete my comments –
    NOW ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF USURY ON CURRENCY

    IAMSLATTERY

  14. Got Silver? says:

    The Dollar will Abandon You. It is time to abandon the Dollar. Change all assets into Silver and learn to use it for Money. Demand it rather than the Dollar. It will take awhile to learn to use it as wampum but when your buying power is $0.10 on the dollar Silver will look pretty good.
    And stop people from feeding the rich.

  15. Dump Nuts says:

    This anarcho-capitalist chump was the worst guest Max has had On the Edge since I’ve been watching it. “I don’t believe there should be referees, I am an anarchist”, yeah, and all the talk about Austrian School too, it was just awful. He showed he hadn’t a clue.

  16. JM says:

    “I don’t believe in referees, I’m an anarchist.”

    “anarchy (noun): a state of disorder due to absence or non recognition of authority”

    Isn’t anarchy what we’ve already got?

    Jeff, the problem with your argument is that Jamie Dimon is an anarchist too.

  17. Confused says:

    The BEST match fixing schemes involves the referee. Sun Tzu.

  18. Where does all the money go?

    Price inflation is limited because people don’t have any money.

    The Fed is dumping trillions into markets.

    Government is massively deficit spending.

    Real Estate markets are deflating. Equities and commodities are volatile but basically flat.

    So where did all the money go? Where will it go and when?

    No wonder OWS doesn’t have THE solution, no one seems to know what THE problem is.

  19. Jayme says:

    Max is making strange contortions in his face and not nodding in affirmation. I think he’s having a difficult time trying to grapple any meat in the comments being made by his guest.

    Dr. Paul Ekman
    http://www.paulekman.com/

    I’m seeing some inflation. Mostly through smaller portions, same price.

    I don’t understand this *flation stuff. The debt is in virtual dollars. I would think that all these virtual dollars would have driven the entire world prices upward and that the only place for prices to go is down if we never see the virtual dollars. So, inflation has already occurred. Austerity is simply a way for the bankers to stake claim to whatever resource or productivity element the virtual currency leverages. The fact that these virtual dollars don’t actually translate to anything real (people don’t deal with them in their transactions) is why people still have confidence in their value. I don’t understand hyperinflation. It seems to be a mixture of inflation with a corresponding loss of confidence in the currency from the little I gather.

    I would expect that the same mechanisms of price control used for securities would apply to virtual commodities such as silver futures. Silver and gold prices, therefore, could be manipulated indefinitely until there is a leakage of virtual money into the real world.

    As for communism and anarchy. Communism, like most systems, is okay, from what microscopic amount I’m learning about politics and government. Most of these smart people in history, Karl Marx and Keynes (who are needlessly bashed a lot) are generally pretty smart and thoughtful people whose ideas were corrupted by some small group of fanatics who blew their philosophies into monstrous machines for power and wealth extraction for a few. The same can be said of capitalism.

    The problem seems to be that when any cooperative system gets co-opted, it’s easy to blame the philosophy outright or pick on any one or few of it’s myriad of unintended consequences and not to fix the underlying problems (root striking) which are usually created by a few dominant people who end up driving the system to their own benefit and taking more than they should (root of the problem).

    Anarchism (in the sense of eliminating systems of thought that are corrupted) doesn’t make sense. The root cause seems to be the small group(s) of people who turn fanatic and turn an ideology into a money making machine to feed their greed. Lets get rid of the incentives for such destructive aggregation of wealth by applying appropriate regulations and break up such corrupting power centers. The banks are simply fronts for the capital owners. However, if the big banks are brought under submission, the mechanisms used to distort the global economy would be brought under regulation and permit better market equilibration throughout the economic strata.

    Bottom line, if I understand where Max is going with this guest, is to bring the central banks back under control, perhaps nationalize them so they are there for the people and not above the people’s law, and get out of the business of speculating with the assets of the savings banks… at least that is what I get out of this discussion. Max couldn’t quite elicit this out of his guest. Eliminating government will only make matters worse when the government is the only thing between us and the bankers.

  20. Confused says:

    The attack of the walk like a duck trolls is deafening, Next we will have Vote for Obama slogans..

  21. Confused says:

    http://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog infected with a virus “interesting” watson

  22. Angelo says:

    Nice episode Max. Invariably enjoy your shows with a smattering or disagreement, which is real and fertile ground. for me, there in lies the solution, in that a solution must allow for disagreement. If it does not, it has failed te first test. What structure can allow for anarchism to exist within it? Perhaps one where the power of the state literally stops at your land boundary, where it is recognised that each individual has sovereign rights over their land? They may not enter even to collect debts and they may impose no taxes or regulations in that space and the right to a space?

    We are all winging it, no? Any salutes?

    Did you know BERWICK is usually pronounced with a silent W in the UK?

  23. d man says:

    I wish we had some referees…… Instead we’ve water-carriers for the banksters, I think. They (the gov.) are the rubber stamp for all that elk and they live well by their bankster controlled actions. Interest on currency is the doubble edge sord we
    are hung to/with (the tar-babby of life today). We’ve no interest to pay on our water bills, why money????
    Maybe our greed is a little bit at work here aginst us too. We all like to think we get something for nothing along with the banksters too!!! Interest is a trap………

  24. The Dork of Cork says:

    Jesus – I want to run towards the neo – Keynesian’s when I listen to this retarded simpleton.

  25. The Dork of Cork says:

    Minsky Moment Bitches.
    Austrian Autistic = Monetarist Zombie.

  26. Jayme says:

    The Dollar Vigilante blog post “The Six Killer Apps of Prosperity that the US Government is Destroying ” TED video post is interesting. The gist being that the reason that the western civilization has been successful is, to quote Muteferrika from 5m:28s

    Because they have “laws and rules invented by reason”

    @8m:51s
    The West’s Killer Apps
    1. Competition
    2. Scientific Revolution
    3. Property Rights
    4. Modern Medicine
    5. Consumer Society
    6. The Work Ethic

    These laws and rules have been driven into ineffectiveness through gaming and contorting the system to continue inequitably redistributing wealth from the poor to the rich. The fact that the west is losing it’s labor ethic I’m not so clear on.

    When the social contract (laws and rules) is broken the people must revolt because that is the only way to excise the hoarded wealth from the parsimonious capitalists who broke the system and are only willing to ‘share’ that wealth through the issue of usury and rent, and not equitably share the collectively generated wealth. The rule of law is dead when they can steal without recourse. I maintain that it is still a small tractable set of people and institutions which could be brought to justice that will move the system toward market equilibrium. Otherwise, there is chaos with any action simply increases entropy of the system.

  27. Jayme says:

    What exactly would cause a leak between the virtual money world of the bankers and the real world that could cause hyperinflation?

  28. John Robb says:

    “Isn’t anarchy what we’ve already got?” -JM

    No, it’s not. From where you and I stand it may appear as anarchy, but only because it appears lawless to you and I. It’s Morgan’s law and Goldman’s law. There is law, and it works perfectly for Dimon and Blankfein.

    Yes, Berwick seemed to express a rather crude understanding, but let’s not confuse crude with incorrect. All of Max’s points were legitamite and insightful. We’ve been engaging massive inflation to ward massive deflation. Both agree on the danger of collapse, but should that occur, I think it might take a few years before anyone actually asks anyone else, “Hey, did you hear an explosion or an implosion?”

    Of course money is an abstract. Money can be abstracted from any asset. Gold differs from many currently recognized assets in that it is tangible. Bank assets are no longer tangible. They are now incestuously derivative unto themselves. So much so that I’ve even lost track of why I’ve written this paragraph into this comment.

    “Without a referee there is no match… You need a referee to have competition… Getting rid of the referee creates that you don’t have a game any more.” -Keiser

    I’ve participated in many good games this year. Not one included a referee.

    Max, where does regulatory capture fit into your game analogy? The referees are bought off from the White House, through the legislature, and on down to the cop on the street. Catch again Reggie Middleton’s sad point toward the end of his OWS video. After stealing police pension funds, the bansters hire retired cops to help police the opposing players. It’s a rigged game with the referees tweaking the fix toward the home team’s favor. The referees are the tools of those who pay them.

    I share Berwick’s nightmare of OWS, that the peasants demand higher wages and such. In Max’s analogy that would be like the Occupiers showing up for the game and demanding a few handicap points

    Here’s a much less tragic vision…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vcCbwVmuBc

  29. Silverwillwin says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Jeff start off by pounding the “Hyperinflation ” drum like we’re staring down the barrel of it right now ? And not but a few minutes later he makes the comment that the dollar could go along for a few more years due to the euro’s problems…a contradiction of sorts ? Jeff seems like he hasn’t a firm grasp on the situation. Not somebody that I want to follow.

  30. Vonda Bra says:

    Very good show!
    I absolutely love the guy! :-)
    Thanks for having him on! … gotta check out his website …
    unfortunately the show was over, right after his “I´m an anarchist” ….
    would have been great to intensify more on this …
    please have him in again!

    @ John Robb
    — The referees are the tools of those who pay them. —
    I totally agree! … and that is exactely what we have now almost everywhere ….
    look at the Judicial system f.e.! … it´s not working!
    thats why we should get rid of them!
    Love V.

    PS: I like the new site-design!!! :-)

  31. SilverCondom says:

    I agree with Berwick: why a referee when he is more than likely to be bought?

    ANARCHY is the answer.

  32. Stuart Bishop says:

    Usually I find Max brilliant, but the questions were a lot more hardball than the recent Ellen Brown episode where she is advocating unlimited credit and borderline communism. Mainstream guests like Schiff and Ellen Brown = more softball questions. Regardless I enjoyed the episode

  33. John Robb says:

    @the anarchists

    Here are a few supportive words. Robert Higgs answers a call from Wyoming. He concludes his paragraph at 0:14:51…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SRSmI-Q3U4&t=11m54s

  34. Dean says:

    Anarchists are dangerous and would only promote a society of haves and have nots. They’d pay people pennies on the dollar to work their land. Of course they’ll try and convince you that the pennies would be worth more. LOL Crazy LaLa land stuff. Imagine with an anarchist, austrian school of economics unleashed upon us all now. The middle class and poor would be starting the monopoly game half way through the game, and would be told you can win so long as you work hard. Try winning a monopoly game when it’s half over, you won’t win, I’ll guarantee it.

  35. Stefan says:

    This guy was a dork … my broomstick understands economics better.

    Max, are you leaning deflationist?

    …. The overwhelming evidence is pointing in that direction.

    Read Schilling.

    Stef

  36. Danny Cunnington says:

    The way that I understand anarchy is a model where there’s no central authority and that there are rules but these are self adoptive by the various players. The main problem with this is the lack of cohesive organisation leading to an individual or group not being secure in his/their lives.

    This runs straight into a natural law. Humans are cooperative beings. They have always worked together in families, tribes, groups or entire cultures to survive. Whenever you have a cooperative system which might be as little as a treaty between members you are faced with the issue of organisation. Some groups will be more organised than others in their implementation and what this means is that the better organised models will eventually take over the less well organised groups. Although we think of competition as the lowest bought to market goods, it’s important to realise that the winners in this game rely on superior organisation to achieve their finished products.

    It’s certainly possible to have a condition of anarchy but it’s really a transitory condition brought about through an implosion of a previous collectivist system but it’s never going to last unless the anarchists can successfully resist other groups from organising themselves which in itself is an unreasonable demand and goes against the spirit of the anarchists.

    Anarchy rejects central organisation and claims it has a natural right to do this. The problem is, the only way anarchy as a model can survive is to disallow others from organising themselves into cohesive groups.

    You could have certain areas where anarchy was the rule but these would quickly become full of people fleeing from justice and the honest hard working farmers and people in the anarchist area would increasingly vote with their feet when they see living standards and security in organised areas that’s superior to the situation they are faced with.

    What this means is that you have a badlands where gangs increasingly rob and hold captive the producers because criminal activity is inherently non-productive. This model has eventual collapse hard wired into it. Of course you could give everybody guns to defend themselves but war-zones are not great places to raise a family and real prosperity always occurs in periods of peace and security.

    I always remember some graffiti sprayed on a concrete bridge above the UK’s M1 Motorway. It was southbound around the Hemel Hempstead ramp off. It had an anarchy symbol and then the words, “The struggle continues”. I always wondered if the people who wrote this understand why they are struggling. If they think they are struggling now to establish anarchy then the struggle will get a lot harder if they ever succeed in establishing anarchy.

    I understand libertarians who are basically calling for freedom because they understand that they can’t really be free unless others are which is why you need at least a constitution to define the rules and make the playing field fair. I have no problem with people wanting to be anarchists but see it as self defeating.

  37. MrJones says:

    Out of all these guys, Steven Keen and Hudson still make the most sense. And I don’t see how he could throw Cuba in there. Heck, they are looking pretty good right now, health care for all, warm weather and beaches that have not be over developed. Heck, they are living a simple life within their means. Never ever seen worthless shit made in Cuba at Wal-mart. But then, I haven’t stepped foot in a Wal-mart in a zillions years.

  38. jischinger says:

    prices in retail – outside food – are falling

  39. Bankerbusters says:

    Max was asking Jeff, Where does the OWS movement go next?

    The people must make a great Run on the Banks because the people have lost their faith in the Banks. It’s that simple. Everyday the people must withdraw their funds, close their accounts, until the job on these vermin Banksters is done. I believe the people can make a difference. The people could tip the Crooked Banks over.

  40. Canuckistan says:

    I agreed with Jeff for most of the interview up until he said
    “get rid of government, government is the problem”. c.c

  41. Steve_D says:

    Max, you should get Stefan Molenyoux on to discuss this topic further.

  42. Silverwillwin says:

    When cash is king and everything is running fine with the fiat way of life , the elite are happy.

    The shackles (fiat) are in place. Society is being controlled and doing they’re jobs without any problems – the elite are being fed they’re grapes, fanned, and clothed .

    Ahhh but the minions are starting to get restless !!

    Time for the uber’s to kick into action ! What better way than to use their control tool to do the job. Turn the cash valve full opened – thus reducing the value of all cash held by all. Next take full control of all of that extra cash that was printed and create a severe tightening of the cash flow that is out on the street !

    Uprisings are beginning to take form so it’s time to work FAST fot the ubers !

    By squeezing the slaveworkers of their buying power the ubers are now ready to squeeze the assets out of them. They clearly have gold and silver captive ONLY by a concept. ( ETF’s, derivatives, paper plays, comex,cme,wasington,wallstreet)

    From 2008 up until now – this is where we’ve arrived.

    CLOSE OUT YOUR BANK ACCOUNTS FROM THE BIG BANKS AND TRANSFER TO SMALL BANKS.

    HOLD ONTO YOUR GOLD AND SILVER AND TRY TO ACCUMULATE MORE.

    TELL OTHERS TO DO THE SAME – IT’S FOR THEY’RE GOOD AS WELL.

    The 99 % without any doubt can kick the 1 % ‘s ass in this game . And very easily if we go in the same direction.

  43. Mishopshno says:

    Anarchism is a nice idea, but it only works in groups with a maximum size of about three hundred (some Native American villages used to do well with this sytem in the old days). Everyone has to know everyone and be able to reach consensus and have some psychological system of encouraging cooperative behavior.

    It’s absurd in a mass society. Just look at Russian history to see what the Communists did to the anarchists (better organized as Danny C. writes).

    If anyone knows a better system than bureaucracy with its rules and regulations for a mass society please share it. The Chinese figured this out centuries ago. Birth control is the only answer if you don’t like bureaucracy.

  44. John Robb says:

    @ararchists & anichrasts

    more ear candy…
    http://youtu.be/6t6nzLX9gF4

  45. someoneionceknew says:

    Why can’t the Austrians just go away?

  46. John Robb says:

    @someoneionceknew

    OMG, then what would you do?
    You’d be out of a job…
    http://youtu.be/JBNJbWpH_pY

  47. Don Juan says:

    I’m surprised at a lot of the communist leaning commentary here! Berwick is one of the new, younger generation of true freedom lovers. He is leading a movement towards freedom and peace by removing government (which causes all the wars and lack of freedom). Open your eyes slaves! Listen to Berwick. Even if you don’t agree with everything, sign up to his blog, he makes more sense than almost any other commentator I’ve heard.

  48. Robbie777 says:

    I think Mike Maloney’s analysis of the whole inflation/deflation scenario is a bit more sophisticated. The paying down of existing credit and reduction in new credit is causing a contraction in the money supply, when total revolving credit is counted as part of the total money supply. And the fed is trying to stop the deflation with stimulus, which eventually has to cause hyper inflation, but not immediately.

  49. Robbie777 says:

    I visited my mother in hospital tonight, it doesn’t look like she is coming home anytime soon. She is receiving excellent care, in an nhs hospital, which she has paid national insurance all her life for, so the care is free at time of need. I suppose the Austrians would say she is part of the problem, as well as the nhs.

    If we can’t all pay a little bit of our income to care for the sick, elderly and vulnerable in our society, what’s the point ?

  50. LiveFree says:

    Bring Berwick on for round 2! Start the interview with, “Why don’t you think we need a referee?” Berwick is a top speaker on why we don’t need a state and I’d love to hear more from him! Great interview!

  51. EdBugos says:

    Actually Robbie777, your mom is definitely not the problem. But your argumentative tactics are old and bankrupt. With regard to healthcare insurance all you’re doing by putting it in the hands of the state is sanctioning a coercive public monopoly. You have to realize that this is not in the interest of the users of the system. There are a lot of myths about this subject so there’s no point in getting into all the pros and cons here.

    Now, at this point I would expect you to argue that the US situation (i.e. the rising costs of healthcare) is an example of what would happen in a free market system, at which point I would have to explain to you why the rising cost of healthcare is not caused by free markets but rather by the government’s meddling, at which point you’d probably tune me out. But if you want personal anecdotes I have a drawer full of examples of the way our wonderful rationed medical system has treated both my own family and others.

    But let’s not play that card and stoop to your level (which mirror Obama’s tactics).

    This in no way implies a lack of compassion for your mother’s situation.

    Far from it; under a free market system i believe 1000% that she would get better quality care and it would be all around cheaper…maybe not for you, but all around in terms of the total resources (esp. human capital) required for the industry. And in certain ways it would definitely be cheaper for many individuals.

    My problem with Max’s commentary is that life is not a game. The free market is not zero sum. The state is not a neutral arbiter, a “referee” as Max called it. Indeed, the evil bankers and corporations he hates use this referee to their advantage, as do the socialists in their agendas…the result being that the referee has increasing power.

    The bankers that Keiser thinks control every aspect of our lives couldn’t do any such thing without this so-called referee, because it is from this ref’s territorial monopoly on force and coercion that the bankers and crony capitalists borrow from in order to restrict competition, give themselves subsidies, protectionist policies, etc. The banking system is one of the most regulated industries in the country. It is totally centralized; and could not conduct fractional reserves without the government’s legal tender laws and other protections of their monopoly over note issue, and from other competition.

    They could never produce bubbles and booms as large as they have – with the consequences of producing outsized recessions – were it not for the central bank, which, even though it is privately chartered, is effectively a government institution -it conducts monetary policy, which is a public policy goal, and is governed by bureaucrats beholden to both the banking cartel and the government that creates cartels -not just in banking.

    You and Max are naive to think that a state could act in any type of neutral capacity. It is a coercive apparatus. It is a negative sum game when the state gets involved. The banking elite are far more afraid of genuine free market competition than of a referee!

    Lastly, on your money supply rhetoric.

    Money is that good that is used as a final payment for goods or services rendered. Last time I checked I couldn’t use a Tbill to buy stuff at Wal-Mart. You have to distinguish between money and credit -you can’t lump them both together and call it money supply.

    The Fed does this, but it is not correct, and ends up creating a double counting problem, which is why M1, M2, M3 are all useless as indicators. The fact is that money has been growing all through 2008, and at a faster clip than the destruction of credit; I’ve been tracking this closely and publish this data at the dollar vigilante website. Consequently Mr. Maloney’s wonderful analysis cannot be more sophisticated; it is just plain wrong.

    If you add revolving credit to the money supply, as i said, you’re double counting money in reality. To much to go into here to demonstrate that fact.

    Additionally, you’re being absurd – and so is Max – in claiming there is any deflation today, by any measure. Think about this. If the money supply hadn’t grown as much as it has over the past few years prices would have actually fallen. That’s another thing most of your type of analysis overlooks. Just because they don’t go up much.

  52. Vonda Bra says:

    Thank you EdBugos for your excellent comment !!!

    and YES Max, please bring Berwick on for round 2! and start the interview with, “Why don’t you think we need a referee?” … as LiveFree suggested….
    It´s the referees stupid!
    Love V.

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