Fossil fuel subsidies still dominate

Stacy Summary:  Just found this first story and the two that follow are from links within the first.  One of my ideas is that we should entirely remove all carbon taxes we currently pay, slash them down to zero; I would also cut income tax drastically if most of it is going to the military, which, in turn, is mostly used to ‘secure’ other people’s oil, natural gas and other resources and, thus, an indirect carbon tax.   I don’t believe that our energy systems would be as inefficient as they currently are if it weren’t for so much government spending in and distortion of the energy market.

44 comments on “Fossil fuel subsidies still dominate
  1. Marc Authier says:

    Limit transportation. And if you have to travel use the train. Just limiting the car speeds at 100 km or 60 miles per hour would reduce the consumption of oil by 30% for transportation. It’s huge considering the fact that transport eats 49% ! YES ! 49% of fossil fuels. Taking your time is part of the solution.

  2. microhousehold says:

    @Stacy
    You’ve hit the nail on the head!
    Well we’ve all seen the $50 billion bail out of GM.

    Same story for nuclear fission.
    Just to remind some people of the The $30 Billion Nuclear Waste Storage Headache:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-nuclear-headache

  3. Are you speaking specifically of the US Stacy?

  4. stacyherbert says:

    @Marc – yes, you’re right, I just read about tankers cutting speeds to reduce fuel costs, it’s called slow steaming: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/31/business/la-fi-slow-sailing-20100731

    @GB’sR – yes, but I’m sure it also applies elsewhere, though not so much to the military spend (ex-UK, France)

  5. microhousehold says:

    @Geek Boy’s Revenge

    Check the links,
    It is happening worldwide:
    Venezuela and Russia for example.

  6. WL says:

    Since 90% of oil production is state owned, subsidies are used to steal energy from other states….

    In a world of fiat backed by nothing, subsidies and taxes are meaningless.

  7. Spill Highlights Oil Industry “Double Game” re Taxes & Subsidies
    http://www.economywatch.com/economy-business-and-finance-news/spill-highlights-oil-industry-double-game-re-taxes-and-subsidies-06-07.html

    An economist for the Treasury Department said in 2009 that
    a study had found that oil prices and potential profits were so high that
    eliminating the subsidies would decrease American output by less than half of one percent.
    “We’re giving tax breaks to highly profitable companies to do what they would be doing anyway,” said Sima J. Gandhi, a policy analyst at the Center for American Progress, a liberal research organization.
    “That’s not an incentive; that’s a giveaway.”
    Some of the tax breaks date back nearly a century

  8. Youri Carma says:

    “Fossil fuel subsidies still dominate” Yep, and we consumers pay for that ourselves. Here in the Netherlands we have a 60% (actually two taxes) on Gasoline.

    Listen, and listen very carefully I studied this subject thoroughly: The Only alternative we have to fossil fuel is son energy, non other! Forget about windmills and other grap that ain’t realistic.

    If we would put money in Son energy we could have a world wide Sun Solar Grid in no time but that ain’t the matter. The oil Companies Rulez.

    As long as the oil company Rulez we can do shit! And that’s the bloody blatant truth. We got to beat the black rubber barons nobility first or you can talk shit till ya die!

  9. Don bag O chickens says:

    “I don’t believe that our energy systems would be as inefficient as they currently are if it weren’t for so much government spending in and distortion of the energy market”

    exactly! I believe we are still in our infancy where energy is concerned. nuke, for example is simply boiling water over hot rocks to create steam. Yet, there is enough hydrogen in the human body to wipe out a city; we are in our infancy.

  10. Don bag O chickens says:

    @ Youri

    you make it sound so naughty!!
    “We got to beat the black rubber barons nobility first or …”

    “beat” “rubber barons”

  11. Don bag O chickens says:

    @ microhousehold

    The waste is in US fertilizers. Uranium has a natural affinity to phosphate. If the phosphate miners intend to separate the two, they have to get NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) licensing which is very expensive and on going. However, if the phosphate producers simply don’t want to hassle with that yellow cake stuff, they simply package it up and send it off to the fields. http://www.acsa2000.net/HealthAlert/radioactive_tobacco.html

    Here is one that contradicts itself: so the radiation comes from the soils (which it can) but the phosphates have nothing to do with that…

    “Natural radioactivity in farm soil and phosphate fertilizer and” …
    http://www.acsa2000.net/HealthAlert/radioactive_tobacco.html

    Plants can work as up take and sinks which will store the uranium isotopes in the food being produced.

    so much uranium that is has become economically feasible to mine uranium from phosphates.
    https://netfiles.uiuc.edu …/Uranium%20Resources%20in%20Phosphate%20Rocks.pdf -

  12. Fiatmentalist says:

    IMO You need to find ways to stop Globalisation. Allow individuals to build personal wealth. End the private issuance of debt currency. End the monopoly of the mega corporation. Reverse interdependence and allow each nation to persue and protect their own interest and goals selfishly. From there build up a proper multi polar family of nations.

    Allowing the people of the world to prosper and evolve without parasitical interference is the best chance that humanity has to move forward to a more deeper understanding of ourselfs and the universe around us.

    Quaint?.

  13. Aaron Richoux says:

    What really matters when you talk about market distortions is that per unit renewables get more subsidy . Renewables are such a small piece of the pie that of course less is spent on them. How much more does oil users pay in taxes?

  14. Marc Authier says:

    @Stacy
    I’m a turtle. I love slowness. Slow people like me will save the Earth. Want to save the planet ? Take your time ! Old Italian saying ‘Qui va piano va sano.’ The one who goes slowly stays healthy. What’s the rush anyways ? A slower world would help us all to learn enjoying life and cultivate our garden.

  15. Globally seized energy fundamentals and the distortion of life:
    the lost retort: http://gasroot.com

  16. F. Beard says:

    @Stacy,

    It seems to me that you sometimes confuse a tax for carbon (i.e. a subsidy such as troops in the ME) with a tax on carbon such as what we pay at the pump. Is it me or lovely thee that is confused?

  17. Mother Earth says:

    @Stacy

    You are definitely a Climatebabe…

  18. Mother Earth says:

    Slow steaming..In shipping it is called ‘economical speed’, that is the minimum speed you can go without getting to late (which is a mortal sinn). The type of oil used to power containerships is nasty, probably because there’s no neigbours to complain about the stench, soot and sulfer mid ocean..

    My take is we need to ban fossil fuels and phase them out on an emergency schedule, they are needed for the transition to electric and possibly ammonia/hydrogen. If you don’t do that you are going to use it up, and then it doesn’t matter how much is used when, the results are the same.

    Carbon stays up there for hundreds if not thousands of years. We need to get the extinction meme going, because most still think the only problem is it will get warmer or colder.

  19. Youri Carma says:

    @Mother Earth

    Trying to stick some feathers up your ass with the World Wide Sun Solar Grid and all …..so were is the I am whitya? Stacy knows who she is do ya?

    Well to be honest the SHELL Agenda=

    - Oil on the first place

    - Goal and research for cleaner coal burning on the second

    - Gas thirdely and if we don’t stop the MTF’s than the Crazies are gonna pump senseless CO2 into the ground and we pay the MTF’s via the the Cap and Trade Scam. So than we pay them triple for oil in Tax what SHELL get’s for Subsidies and for senseless CO2 pumping, it’s a fuckin disgrace.

    Wake up boy!

  20. Youri Carma says:

    The MTF’s here in Holland (Read our Government) donnow their head from an hole in the ground. They are completely in the pocket of the Bilderbergers they lick Rockefellows ass, “Yes Sir, No Sir, Certainly so Sir”

    Rockefellow tells them to jump and they ask how high. They’re dupes. Especially the cunning treators of the CDA (Conservative Christian Hounds Party) who sell our country out to these scumbags just like our head of the Central Bank – CFR scumbag Welling. Lying SOB.

  21. deepsoul says:

    Agreed. Well said.

  22. Neville Bartos says:

    I get the point about income taxes and indirect carbon tax. But realistically how do you stop someone else ‘securing’ the resources. On the flip side it may promote competition within energy types but I can’t see current IP laws being fertile ground. Also there would be a restructuring time for new energy technologies. Granted the situation is an oil spill but the point is still a valid opposition to a carbon tax.

  23. Chris says:

    These fossil fuel “subsidies” are in fact a tax. The oil companies pollute the air and water, the taxpayers pay for the clean up and the climate change damage out of our own taxes. This tax just goes to help the profits of ecodestroyers, where as a carbon tax would at least curb destructive behavior, be a LOWER tax and the funds could be directed somewhere sensible.

    (Note1: “could be” assumes we have a real democracy which is a long way off. )
    (Note2: Carbon tax is a straight flat tax, not a carbon market which GS can manipulate)

  24. Chris says:

    Since were talking about CO2, one of the odd seeming facts is that CO2 increase in the historical record temperature increase, at least for the first 800 years of a 5000 year warming period. This article explains why:

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/Why-does-CO2-lag-temperature.html

    Basically the think to note is that CO2 & temp are a positive feedback loop. When earth warms a bit (eg due to Malkenovitch cycles) the oceans breath out a little more CO2, which causes the oceans to warm, which causes more CO2, etc. What’s frightening is that the oceans today are absorbing a portion of the CO2 we emit…but may not always be able to do so, esp. as they heat up!

  25. Youri Carma says:

    @Neville Bartos

    Well it’s all about money flows Cap an Trade is a form of derivative tax created out of nothing which makes these Rockefellers billions and it’s a system that’s made to commit fraude which in fact is allready happening.

    If you want a Cap on it it’s very simple just put the tax on the Gasoline and the more people use gasoline the more they pay. It’s just that simple. You don’t need a black box in your car to charge you by the mile. A tax payed at the gasoline station is a charge per mile, very simple. These black boxes are all about control freaks and they are control freak sociopaths.

    But what are government’s gonna do with all that extra money? They throw it on the the big tax pile like with all the taxes. The best would be if these taxes are realy spend on building a sun solar energy grid from Europe to North Africa and going further trough the deserts were you have the most sunlight hours.

    In fact the EU has such a plan so why nobody is hearing about that and why havn’t they started to build it? It would be perfect for the North and Middle Africans to deliver Electricity to Europe which developes the third world and give them a steady source of income.

    Solar power from Saharan sun could provide Europe’s electricity, says EU http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jul/23/solarpower.windpower

    Trans-Mediterranean Renewable Energy Cooperation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Mediterranean_Renewable_Energy_Cooperation

  26. Chris says:

    In our last thread on the topic WL posted this paper:

    Falsification_of_the_Atmospheric_CO2_Greenhouse_Effects.pdf

    by Gerhard Gerlich.

    Written will full use of radiative transfer equations, etc. claiming that there is no Greenhouse Effect on earth at all. I read it (somewhat quickly) and found it lacking in several ways. But now, I discovered that its already been debunked by several people. Including one line by line refutation of the whole paper.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Gerhard_Gerlich

    I should have known….

  27. Youri Carma says:

    The Desert Concept http://www.desertec.org/en/concept/

    This same Concept can be done in the U.S. using it’s deserts http://www.desertmuseum.org/books/nhsd_northamerica.php

    But no, the U.S. rather spends it’s money on Useless wars and genocide that what I call it when you poison not only the enemy but also your troops with depleted uranium. Cancer rate in Fallujah worse than Hiroshima http://arabnews.com/world/article91871.ece

    In Context: US Military Spending Versus Rest of the World: The U.S. Spends 47% of the Total Global war expenditure http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending#InContextUSMilitarySpendingVersusRestoftheWorld

  28. IceIce Baby says:

    1. Reduce the number of paved roadways. It would reduce traffic by reducing the enjoyabilty of driving (and polluting).

  29. Bonn says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel

    Fossil fuels are fuels formed by natural resources such as anaerobic decomposition of buried dead organisms. The age of the organisms and their resulting fossil fuels is typically millions of years, and sometimes exceeds 650 million years
    Bonn says PROOVE IT

    bONN tHEORY On fOSSIL FUEL
    Whenever sometin is explained in such a simpleton fashion IT’S ALL COCK AND BULL CRAP
    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
    ROFL
    Hic ;-)

  30. Marc Authier says:

    It just proves again and again that Adam’s Smith free market is just plain and unadultarated bullshit in every sphere of human activity. Want to be rich today ? Buy a godamn politician so he can rape and plunder the slave taxpayer.

  31. Redzebra says:

    Climate science: Hotter heatwaves
    Published online 04 August 2010
    Nature

    Regional changes in extreme summer temperatures could exceed average global warming by several degrees, according to Robin Clark and his colleagues at the Met Office Hadley Centre in Exeter, UK.

    They ran 224 simulations of climate responses to an atmospheric carbon dioxide level double that of today’s to determine the corresponding changes in regional heat extremes. They found that in many geographical areas in the Northern Hemisphere, even the lower estimates of changes in heat extremes exceeded the global average increase in temperature.

    Furthermore, 44 simulations that produced an average of 2 °C of global warming predicted that single-day extreme temperatures could increase by 6 °C or more in large parts of Europe, North America and Asia. Regional changes in excessively hot days and heatwaves are related to variability in reductions in soil moisture, the authors suggest.

    Geophys. Res. Lett. doi:10.1029/2010GL043898 (2010)

  32. Youri Carma says:

    @Don bag O chickens

    “Black Nobilty, “Rubber Barons” who are one and the same so I mingled them a bit and it supose to sound nasty cause they are nasty fellows.

  33. Youri Carma says:

    @@Don bag O chickens

    Wait O minute,. You said naughty.

    Well nasty and naughty is a thin line sometimes. The emphasis should be on nasty but everybody has his own associations, thinking is free (for now).

  34. @Youri: the Shell agenda is under Exxon pressure since 1963 – learn your history lessons and xxell – Exxon-Shell-Gov.nl is the globe’s biggest public-private partnership that seized the globalisation trend and dictates life worldwide with the P3/cheapOil doctrine led by ExxonMobil’s banksters.
    http://twitter.com/Wikilead

  35. Eduardo says:

    Hi, Stacy!

    Global Warming is bull but I agree, we should have no subsidies for oil, real market based energy prices and let providers of energy to compete on efficiency.

    CO2 is not a problem, carbon tax and oil subsidies are…

    We that do not accept Global Warming “Science” can agree with you on this: No subsidies for oil and no Carbon Tax. A good platform for any libertarian candidate…

    If this platform indirectly helps to solve the unexistent “Global Warming Problem” you are welcome….

    Cheers from a cold winter in São Paulo, Brazil!

  36. farang says:

    Don’t know for certain it is fact, but I have heard IRS payroll taxes collected go directly to the Fed to pay interest on the Debt. That may just be rumor. In other words, straight into the coffers of foreign owned banks. That may not just be rumor. Or slavery, whatever suits ya.

    I do recall 8 years ago that 20% of all taxes collected serviced the interest on the Debt. Not sure what percentage it is now. That was US Treasury numbers, and we all know you can trust them like Boy Scouts.

    If true though, then the military we mostly borrow to fund. Or use the FICA has if it was Payroll collections and spend it without Trust. Or Print it. Or all three of the above.

    Yes Stacy, there is a thing called “purse strings.” And ballot booths. Labeled “Non-functioning”, with a lockout tag firmly affixed.

    And a vast corrupt msm: Now for the closing conjure, we show you two candidates from one party, we pick the questions they will answer, and you get to “choose.” For a real knee-slapper, we’ll label this charade a “debate”….you Rubes will never know.

    “Do not attempt to adjust your set. “We control the vertical. We control the horizontal….”

    And don’t you dare ask who “we” are, you miserable conspiracy theorist you.

  37. @Youri: but I agree, No More Tax but 5euro/Ltr would solve the globe’s problems – primarely being the fundamental lack of meaningful participation and innovation – and instate European supremacy over the American economic chimera by decoupling the euro from petrodollar warfare and ICTerror that would free the world from institutional budget-buffer-bonus crime.
    http://worltd.com

  38. CUL-DE-SEC:

    NO MORE SUBSIDIES NOR TAXES
    ONLY 5 EURO/LTR IS THE WAY OUT
    Ban Authority & Industry at the sane time!

    http://Brutish.Petroleum-s.com

  39. Exxon is the visible hand of the human spirit and rootcause of the situation boom in God’s market environment.

  40. It’s interpollution, stupid!
    http://POLLUTICO.COM

  41. microhousehold says:

    @Don bag O chickens

    Cheers for the links.

    I was quite surprised to find out that some companies use radioactive waste in their smoke detectors:

    http://www.anr.state.vt.us/dec/wastediv/HHW/SmokeDetectors.htm

    http://library.thinkquest.org/C004606/applications/smokedetectorsim.html

    http://www.eoearth.org/article/Smoke_detectors_and_radiation

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