Wildfires, rising debt, debunking productivity & GDP

Stacy Summary:  I thought Russia was supposed to be the big beneficiary of global warming?  The last two articles really go hand in hand in demonstrating the dangers of command and control, corrupt government statistics meant to trick the bond market and make the consumer (formerly known as citizen) feel better about shopping.   And note that the US is the only developed nation to hedonically adjust their GDP numbers and yet over and over analysts and also the citizens of the US believe that because their GDP numbers, as stated, are higher than the rest of the world, they are the BEST!

74 comments on “Wildfires, rising debt, debunking productivity & GDP
  1. minutemen says:

    hi stacy, i wanted to read, “Karl Denninger’s charts demonstrate massive delusional reporting of GDP numbers in US” but the link doesn’t work.

  2. stacyherbert says:

    @minutemen – oh I see, it seems to be his exclamation point; well if you copy and paste the whole url into the browser, it should work for you

  3. minutemen says:

    thanks works now 🙂

  4. minutemen says:

    pretty scarry btw, the US really is a paper tiger

  5. minutemen says:

    me estimate is the US will collapse anytime from august till the end of november.

  6. What-me-worry? says:

    ‘Japan: Land of the Rising Temper’ more like.

  7. Youri Carma says:

    Piraeus unable to pay its debts 30 July 2010, (Kathimerini) http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_0_30/07/2010_118721

  8. Youri Carma says:

    FED research report: U.S. is closer than ever to Japan-like deflation 29 July 2010, by Greg Robb (MarketWatch) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/feds-bullard-backs-more-asset-purchases-if-needed-2010-07-29

    Seven Faces of The Peril by James Bullard PDF http://research.stlouisfed.org/econ/bullard/pdf/SevenFacesFinalJul28.pdf

  9. Youri Carma says:

    FED Committee: Joblessness Eventually will fall Back to Pre-Recession Levels 23 July 2010, by Carlos Torres (Bloomberg) http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-23/equilibrium-u-s-unemployment-level-increases-to-7-from-5-barclays-says.html

  10. Youri Carma says:

    Failed Banks: 2 more – 5 for the week, 22 for the month, and 108 for the year… 30 july 2010, by Victoria McGrane of Dow Jones Newswires (The Wall Street Journal) http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100730-718129.html

  11. Mother Earth says:


    It seems Denninger’s database can be maxed out..good for him

    Forest fires..nature taking over from man as global warming runs away

    I suspect there is a reason why the thermohaline circulation is not openly mentioned on the topic of ‘upwelling’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upwelling

    At the same time it is maintians that the equatorial upwellings are wind driven, while most people know there is almost no wind at the equator.

  12. Youri Carma says:

    Japan Growth to Slow as Unemployment Rises, Production Drops 30 July 2010, by Keiko Ujikane and Mayumi Otsuma (Bloomberg) http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-30/japan-s-unemployment-unexpectedly-rises-output-drops-in-sign-of-slowdown.html

  13. Youri Carma says:

    @Mother Earth

    I am aware of the fact that when it’s warm you can;t think straight. Advise: Listen to people who can.

    Man who coined the phrase Greenhouse Effect says Global warming Poppycock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU_AZ–tg7Y

  14. What-me-worry? says:

    “Putin has requested $5 billion rubles ($165 million) be used to stomp out the flames”

    Surrealist’s dream come true!

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-wildfires-have-gotten-so-bad-that-now-putin-has-been-put-in-charge-2010-7#ixzz0v9YZdXd9

  15. Dedo says:

    Does the fact that forest fires and the like are reported more, mean there are more,…..
    Or is it a perceptual thang !

    If there are more,..from whence cometh the data ,.
    “Reputable” establishments like the IPCC and the like, maybe… hmmm

  16. Fiatmentalist says:

    Usually these fires are not blamed on the heat but on some unknown arsonists, ususal direct the masses emotions towards some face of evil andsome witch hunt can begin. Be interesting to see if the fires are to be blamed on “individuals” or “global warming”. If they blame “global warming” then will be interesting to think just who started these fires 🙂

    After all if you insist on the falacy of economy = ecology then expect the mother of all insurance scams!!

  17. MirrorMirror says:

    Schwarzenegger to Address Elite at Bohemian Grove


    I thought BG was just Conspiracy Theory ?

  18. Youri Carma says:


    I suspect faul play from the satanists

    Remember how many wild fires we had last year? Greece, America etc… etc…even in the Netherlands and most recently another one. What are the odds?

    One other thing if you look at all the oil pipeline explosions – do your research – dozens of them. Also coincedence? I don’t believe in coincedences.

  19. What-me-worry? says:

    All these fires!

    Mais oui………..


  20. Youri Carma says:


    Bush 41 dons Bohemian Grove hat during interview about VP race http://www.infowars.com/bush-41-dons-bohemian-grove-hat-during-interview-about-vp-race/

  21. Youri Carma says:


    Best chemtrail footage I’ve seen sofar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmZucED2kc8

  22. Dedo says:

    @Youri,…I don’t bother much with “re”search anymore,..
    I know the whole system is a scam,….
    Pointless debating it IMO

  23. Mongo says:

    “Consumer (formerly known as the citizen)”


  24. Youri Carma says:


    Yaeh, I know but also talkin to the audiance a bit.

    My theory now is that cause the MTF’s have been spraying for years now that they actually could be causing global warming and extreme rainfall.
    Some of these particles they spray can actually collect heat from the sun.

    “Using these new findings, a global climate model predicted that clouds have a stronger cooling effect on the globe than previously estimated. However, future increases in these ice nuclei for cold clouds would reduce the cooling impact on climate and vice versa, the scientists found.” http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100607165744.htm

  25. Dedo says:

    Here’s a good introduction for the uninitiated :

  26. Youri Carma says:


    Peasants–>Citizens–>Consumers–>Peasants/Useless Eaters

  27. Fiatmentalist says:

    Michael Meacher MP: humans only have 200-300 years left on earth


    Its in the details, the details start with the funding. Meacher is either a pathetic sycophant or an alarmist for control.

    The notion of economy = ecology must be broken.

  28. What-me-worry? says:

    Thanks for the vid Youri – I’ve seen ‘these fuckers’ in UK and Japan. Do you have any knowledge regarding who is running these aircraft missions?

  29. Gordo says:

    Yep more proof that (ZeroHedge) is just another neo-con-conservative-return-to-darkages scum.

    And no the US will not collapse this year from anything financial.

    Political maybe but I doubt it.

  30. Youri Carma says:

    Tyler: The capital markets, which are celebrating accelerating deflation and inflation at the same time, are now officially insane, as the Dow has diverged from its credit implied fair value by about 170 points! http://www.zerohedge.com/article/market-breaks-stocks-explode-celebrate-sub-29-10-year

  31. What-me-worry? says:

    Here’s my most recent response from the UK Health Prevention, sorry Protection Agency:

    “Regarding your query about ‘chemtrails,’ please refer to my email reply
    of 23/06/2010 for my response to this issue. As stated in the response,
    ‘chemtrails’ are not scientifically recognised phenomena, therefore I
    cannot provide any advice.”

    Doublespeak in action……..

  32. Mother Earth says:

    Reading the below story I think we could get the people to save for their own guillotine as well. Lauching the Best Guillotine Fund soon, only the best parts that don’t come inexpensive…But wasn’t the guillotine meant for the oligarchs?


  33. Youri Carma says:


    Same control freaks who are bussy killing 80% of us. They also mix up the regular kerosine with stuff so that in fact whole airliner fleets are spraying whitout knowing it. Parts of the CIA with at the top the Rockefellers Rothschilds above them the Committee of 300 – aka The Olympians http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_committee300_11.htm

    Evergreen Air and a Secret Chemtrail Facility http://theintelhub.com/2010/05/29/evergreen-air-cia-chemtrail-facility-leaked/

  34. Fiatmentalist says:

    King of England Is Money Master in Northern Rock’s Wake


    Seemingly there is no England, only a bank of England. Looks like the Scots Welsh and Northern Irish get away with blaming the English for this British calamity. Thats colonial rule for ya!!

  35. Youri Carma says:

    NWO 7 step plan almost done – Doc Marquis—Arrival of the Antichrist part 11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nDC0ZQBPzk

  36. Mother Earth says:

    @Youri Carma

    ‘My theory now is that cause the MTF’s have been spraying for years now that they actually could be causing global warming and extreme rainfall.
    Some of these particles they spray can actually collect heat from the sun.’

    Yes, it is called carbon dioxide.


    ‘The notion of economy = ecology must be broken’

    Try to have an economy in which nobody can eat anything that has been part of an organism that was alive once, because that is what you seem tho think is possible. Start with yourself 😉


    I you lean your head to the left, does black goo leak out of your ear?

  37. Mike/Liverpool says:

    Hi Team
    what up for today?
    BTW Zerohedge sez that we going to see a The Fed talk about “QE Lite” this month?

  38. Bonn says:

    @ Youri
    have ya checked tis dude ???
    Brooks Agnew documentary on the expedition to discover if the earth is actually hollow

    Hic 😉
    Werth a look @

  39. Dedo says:

    @Mother,…..yeah,..left and right,..why? : )
    You the same ?

  40. Youri Carma says:

    #Mother Earth

    NO! It’s called : Barium & Aluminium Silly

    Chemtrail Chemicals Confirmed: Barium & Aluminium Found In Whangarei, NZ Rainwater http://clareswinney.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/chemtrail-chemicals-confirmed-barium-aluminium-found-in-whangarei-nz-rainwater/

  41. Yeah! says:

    Are the Russian wildfires really just something natural that should occur every bunch of years, or just a way to clear a lot of land in some of the cases?

    Anyway, I get more concerned about wildfires in Belarus and Ukraine, where significant amounts of plutonium and other “bad stuff” are sent into the atmosphere, and depending on the weather, gets dropped on places from germany to finland, or to other places in russia where they just get incorporated into globally-distributed foodstuffs (think beer and cheese), which is never really tested.

  42. Fiatmentalist says:

    @ME your completley closed minded. Were in this mess because the bankers insist on viewing everything, including you, as an economic unit. Play their game at the expense of your own future. Conserving the planet is a consious decision not a bonus reward.

    I guess you cant wipe your own arse without weighing up the economic consequences!!

  43. Youri Carma says:


    Interesting theory will watch it tough I doubt it.

    I do know that what we see as the sun is no solid outside we look at but a Elecromagnetic Plasma. This is the misconception about the sun and it’s actaul mass (weight).

  44. Bonn says:

    Tears still one theory I cant seem to wrap me brain around
    If ta moon can lift oceans tides why are’nt we floatin around ???????
    Hic 😉
    I mean an ocean weighs gazzillion tones and 60 % of our body mass is water sommetin doesnt add up

  45. Bonn says:

    tears tis too which I posted yesterday

    In 1947, Admiral Richard E. Byrd led 4,000 military troops from the U.S., Britain and Australia in an invasion of Antarctica [Operation Highjump and follow-up], but encountered heavy resistance from Nazi “flying saucers” and had to call off the invasion. A Rear…….

    sometin is amiss
    Hic 😉
    PS tey still teach us Light travels in packets ie photons see it fits in tis formula
    oh also light travels in waves seee it fits tis formula as well

  46. Mother Earth says:


    That is an interesting video

    Some of my thoughts..

    Idea’s can define tribes, tribes can weaken themselves in battle. Hence the truth ‘All conflict is loss’, which includes internal conflict.

    The strong mind governs ideas like people, it gives them room and accepts their incongruency. The strong mind will act towards his goals so his experiences will consist of relevant ideas in their right order, the order of reality.

    The three sources of power are: Fittness, Wealth and Religion.

    Knowledge is not a source of power, it is a source of division and weakness. Power hates knowledge. There is a difference between a plan and knowledge. There is a difference between facts and knowledge. Facts change all the time.

    The ones you want to rule need to believe they need knowledge to slow them down and divide them, they can’t be too wealth, they can’t be to healthy and if they are prone to atheism or spiritualty it is to be encouraged, the wandering mind is eaily raped. Believe something and the mind will be less prone to divisions, atheism is unstabile.

    The rulers are crooks, because crooks use all means, and in a world where the public is divided and powerless the one that uses all means wins. This is why the world is being destroyed.

    Only when one can constitute a group of superior morality that is strong from its conception the risks of having strong morality is worth it. Power can protect the weakness of morality by killing the threats, hence the dangers of morality gaining power.

    Humanity has split it two main tribes, the dumb power and the struggling powerless. Because there is no room to initiate new morality it wil go down wrestling with itself taking all other life with it.

  47. Mother Earth says:


    Ok, I guess you want to preserve the ecology and would like to see less concern with the economy. I’m on board with that. Let’s all be owners and creators of the stuff we need and there is no need for an ‘economy’..

  48. What-me-worry? says:

    Thanks for speedy reply @Youri – The Olympians eh? Good grief.

    Also, super weird vid-link from Bonn re: hollow earth – thank you.

    I’ll sleep well tonight!

  49. Mother Earth says:

    @Youri Carma

    Yes, barium and aluminium, not MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF CO2. That is how your mind works. Car won;t start, battery is empty, but it won’t start because the ignition key was cursed by the previous owner..Good luck.

  50. F. Beard says:

    May God help the poor Russians!

    I am impressed by Putin. Where are his bodyguards in that crowd of people?

  51. frances snoot says:

    “yet over and over analysts and also the citizens of the US believe that because their GDP numbers, as stated, are higher than the rest of the world”

    Chairman Ben S. Bernanke
    At the University of South Carolina Commencement Ceremony, Columbia, South Carolina
    May 8, 2010

    The Economics of Happiness

    “Notwithstanding that income contributes to well-being, the economics of happiness is also a useful antidote to the tendency of economists to focus exclusively on material determinants of social welfare, such as the GDP.

    GDP is not itself the final objective of policy, just as an increase in income may not be a good enough reason for you to change jobs. Obtaining broader measures of human welfare is challenging, but not impossible. Indeed, the United Nations has produced its human development reports for 20 years, and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development has been engaged in a comprehensive project to examine the progress of societies in order to ensure that economic policymaking focuses on improving human welfare, broadly construed.”

    The monetary authorities, G20, are working to deliver a newparadigm to replace GDP as measure of a nation’s success relative to an happiness index. The World Bank ideology, Gross National Happiness, is being promoted by analysts throughout the US, including Mr. Bernanke.

    You spend too much time in Paris, Stacy.

  52. stacyherbert says:

    @snoot – you spend too much time hating Paris and making all roads lead to it; while France is a very arrogant country with a completely bankrupt banking system, the fact that this is true does not negate the fact that GDP numbers as stated by US cannot be compared to any other major economy as the numbers are not counted the same way; the happiness index is a red herring brought out conveniently during the current economic upheaval; it’s meant to make the bottom 99.9% feel better, nobody will hear about it again when and if the financial crisis ends

  53. frances snoot says:

    “Much that he recommends comes from a report that Stiglitz produced for the United Nations and another piece of work he was involved in for president Sarkozy of France. The latter gets us into the area of happiness. Stiglitz is convinced that the blind pursuit of growth in GDP per head has led us astray, and he flirts with notions of gross national happiness (GNH), as adopted in Bhutan.

    In the financial arena, Stiglitz would like to see a new global reserve currency. He thinks it inconceivable that the dollar can remain at the centre of the global financial system indefinitely. He is not the only person advancing that proposition. The governor of the Chinese central bank has done so, though the central view would seem to be that the time is not quite right for such a dramatic change.

    On the regulatory front, we find ourselves on familiar territory. Banks should hold more capital. There should be greater regulation of financial innovation and further standardisation of derivatives. And Stiglitz is supportive of the arguments put by Volcker and Mervyn King to the effect that if banks are too big to fail they are too big to survive, and should be broken up.”


  54. Adam C says:

    It’s useful to understand the psychology of those people who are easily swayed by the irrational aspects of environmentalism.


    Freedomain Radio — Political Parties Analyzed: Greens

    “Mother Earth, Father Capitalism and Moral Superheroes! The fantasy world of environmentalists…”


  55. frances snoot says:


    “The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
    Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.

    The houses are all gone under the sea.

    The dancers are all gone under the hill.


    So here I am, in the middle way, having had twenty years—
    Twenty years largely wasted, the years of l’entre deux guerres
    Trying to use words, and every attempt
    Is a wholly new start, and a different kind of failure” tseliot

  56. Adam C says:

    Listening to that again, I remembered the podcast wanders a bit. Here’s a condensed gist of it:

    ‘When you start to look at political activism of any kind, when people act in a resolutely anti-empirical way, you know that psychological defenses are at work. Their government fails at everything except predation and destruction but people continue to turn to it like a white knight. There’s this endless frustration as to why statism isn’t working. Not realizing their belief in the State is a psychological defense, statists continue to escalate in the same way parents who use violence to obtain obedience from children tend to escalate: because it doesn’t work. The State is viewed as a saviour because it represents the grandiosity of the helpless and this is why the fantasy of statism is so hard to break for people. If the State were to disappear tomorrow, people would actually have to deal with their pain, they wouldn’t have this receptacle for their childhood helplessness and anger. That’s why if you talk to people about getting rid of the State they get very upset about it.

    In the green mythological fantasy there are three major players: #1. The Cowering Victim (Mother Earth, feminine), #2. The Raping Perpetrator (capitalism, masculine), #3. The Superhero Saviour (The State, gender neutral) — So to relate these players to the family, there’s a brutal father and a depressed, passive-aggressive mother. But where does the State come from in this fantasy because there’s no State in the family? The superhero State is the child’s projection fantasy of power and omnipotence which is the only possible psychological response to helplessness in the face of violence. Greens, by abstracting and projecting their need for power onto the State, have ensured they will never gain any real power in their lives and that the State will just take from them without offering anything in return. Grandiosity is a form of helplessness; it allows us to ignore the pain our own experiences. The experiences we repress or project onto others always end up controlling us.’

    Freedomain: Political Parties Analyzed: Greens

  57. LizE says:

    Could some kind person please explain Karl Denninger’s charts? I can’t seem to grasp the point he is making, any help appreciated.

  58. Josh Fulton says:

    There’s a big difference between public an private unions.

  59. What-me-worry? says:


    My impression is:
    Graph 1 represent a moribund economy relying on a rusty iron lung
    Graph 2 represents a dead cat that’s lost it’s bounce

    I think that the indignation is due to a dead cat being portrayed as a still bouncing cat.

    Apologies to cat lovers but I believe the terminology is well understood.

  60. What-me-worry? says:

    @LizE I think the issue and subsequent indignation is that a non-bouncing and thoroughly dead cat is being portrayed as a bouncing (dead or maybe otherwise) cat by the people responsible for the welfare of the cat.

  61. What-me-worry? says:

    Did I mention the ‘c’ word (cat)?

  62. What-me-worry? says:

    I’m sleep blogging – please forgive me.

  63. stacyherbert says:

    @Adam C – sorry but you are obsessed with making everything fit into your anarchist thing; I, for one, don’t think the Earth is getting ‘raped’ by some big oil daddy; I merely like to observe just as I enjoy watching BBC wildlife documentaries; it is often brutal to watch but one knows that to intervene on behalf of the gazelle that WILL indeed get eaten by the lion (or as you might describe it, ‘get raped by the lion’) should we not intervene would upset the balance of nature; humans are part of the eco-system and all participants in the eco-system provide their own brand of ‘pollution’; but time after time nature restores balance, you see that constantly that a balance is restored to all systems, whether artificially constructed ones or natural ones; the greenhouse effect is one of very basic physics, the complex part that we cannot predict is how the overall climate will be impacted, that it is complex does not mean that I am not a free human being that can ponder what will happen; though I feel sorry for the gazelle, I do not wish to rescue the gazelle; though I know smoking will cause lung cancer 50% of the time, I do not wish to forbid someone from smoking and thus POSSIBLY getting lung cancer

  64. Randy says:

    L.A. is always on fire. Putin looks flabby and no hair on the chest. Very unleader-like.

  65. Adam C says:


    >> @Adam C – sorry…

    Apology accepted!

    >> greenhouse effect is one of very basic physics, the complex part that we cannot predict is how the overall climate will be impacted, that it is complex does not mean that I am not a free human being that can ponder what will happen

    You’ve contradicted yourself somewhat. Pondering is a form of predicting. I am FOR predictions. And I support your freedom in making predictions and assessing the validity of the predictions made by others. Predictions are made increasingly accurate by using real empirical data i.e., use of scientific method.

    >> I do not wish to forbid someone from smoking and thus POSSIBLY getting lung cancer

    Yes, you are recognise the validity of property rights: that you cannot morally initiate force against someone to enforce your aesthetic preferences.

    “Voluntaryism, or voluntarism is a philosophy according to which all forms of human association should be voluntary as far as possible. Consequently, voluntaryism opposes the initiation of aggressive force or coercion. Most voluntaryists also support strong property rights, which they regard as part of natural law that is compatible with non-coercion.” — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntaryism

    I’m sorry in my failure to see where we disagree.

  66. Illinois Brandon says:

    All the major TV business news in the US blame the United Auto Workers in the US for the collpalse of GM and Chrysler. They fail to mention that for years that the UAW gave up hard won gains it had for years. PS My Grandfather, Father, and three of uncles were all Teamster truck drivers.

  67. F. Beard says:

    Have no fear Charles is here Talcott

    @Chuck (Prince Charles)
    The position of Savior is already filled and you DO NOT want to be the anti- (pseudo) Christ .

  68. LizE says:

    @what-me-worry: I can see I should have been more specific in my question. So the first chart represents what has been going on GDP-wise, and the second chart is based on revised GDP numbers from the govt? Obviously this is important—disgustingly nasty, even–but why?

    We’re told that “the maximum y/o/y “depression that garnered the Great Recession was a miniscule decrease in reported nominal GDP.” This is a good thing? A bad thing? Something we knew already or a fact that has just been revealed? The article assumes a certain level of prior knowledge and since I don’t have it, I was hoping someone could enlighten me. Hopefully without any cats being injured in the process.

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