Flotilla Jibber Jabber [UPDATED]

Stacy Summary: I’ve been asked by a user of the site to remain silent on Israeli crimes for fear of dragging out the usual cast of ignorant, neanderthal nazis (half of whom I know are paid to be so). I believe it is exactly this silence for fear of the neanderthals (faux and real), however, that has resulted in this shocking impunity. So, please note, that ignorant f*%ks and provocateurs will be banned forever from commenting on this site. If you want freedom to speak your ignorance freely, then go create your own site where you can drag your knuckles freely. For others, this is a jibber jabber thread and a place to post links to news items as and when new information emerges about what has happened with this flotilla in international waters off Gaza. **UPDATE**Did Twitter censor the #flotilla hashtag following the Israel attack? **UPDATE**Nato ally, Turkey, threatens action ** UPDATE ** Turkey tries to invoke mutual defense doctrine, according to Faisal Islam Mutual defense doctrine here, Articles 5 & 6.1

551 comments on “Flotilla Jibber Jabber [UPDATED]
  1. jon says:

    folks, this is bigger than the stupid israelis. The israelis are just puppets for the elites. lIke the usa and several other countrys.

    The elites want ww3. They want it bad now. So they can do away with alot of us and start thier new world order.

    Don’t think this isn’t the case folks. They didnt’ build many underground bunkers and cities for nothing.

  2. Nicholas says:

    “ignorant, neanderthal nazis”

    Need the Babblefish translator.

  3. dan valley says:

    @Nicholas …as I stated on the first page of posts…..me thinks the lady doth protest….

  4. Van B. says:

    Okay I’m “pimping” myself. With all that’s happening in the world, are we not on “The Eve of Destructuon”?. A youtube video I did a week ago–not the best, not the worst–I kind of like it….plus we still have a couple hours left of “Memorial Day”



  5. nobody says:

    @ Geophysics

    “Israel did a GREAT JOB! ”

    Pathetic and disgusting!

    Arabs are trying to wipe off the Israel, Hamas are killing our people everyday. We the jews suffered how long, anti-semite blah blah blah…

    Grow up and look who are the real anti-semites.it’s not nazis this time but Israeli govt. They are driving the jews around the world into another dangerous corner. They is an old jewish saying that If there are two jews, there are 3 different opinions. All jews around the world don’t speak and act with 1 ideology and 1 idea. Do not put your people to one basket for the sake of your people. History proves it’s dangerous thing to do again and again. You say Israel is the only democratic society in the middle east like a broken record. In the democratic society, criticism against govt’s polices are reasonable. Only totalitarians are label people who dare to criticise the govt’s polices such as anti-semite or self-hating jews.
    How dare they call jews who have a different opinion “self-hating jews??

  6. GGees says:

    These Israelis are at least a hope, they need support

    A message from within – signed by Israeli citizens

    Dear all,

    This is an important call by Israeli academics against the war, which I hope you can read and distribute widely.

    In support of the Palestinian human rights community call for international action. A call from within – signed by Israeli citizens

    As if the occupation was not enough, the brutal ongoing repression of the Palestinian population, the construction of settlements and the siege of
    Gaza- now comes the bombardment of the civilian population: men, women,
    old folks and children. Hundreds of dead, hundreds of injured, overwhelmed hospitals, and the central medicine depot of Gaza bombed.

    The ship Dignity of the Free Gaza movement which brought emergency
    medical supplies and a number of physicians was also attacked. Israel has returned to openly committing war crimes, worse than what we have seen in a long time.

    Israeli media do not expose their viewers to the horrors and to the voices of severe criticism of these crimes. The story told is uniform. Israeli dissidents are denounced as traitors. Public opinion including that of the Zionist left supports the Israeli policy uncritically and without reservation.

    Israel’s destructive criminal policy will not cease without a massive
    intervention by the international community. However, except for some rather weak official condemnation, the international community is reluctant to intervene,. The United States openly supports the Israeli violence and Europe, although voicing some condemnation, is unwilling to seriously consider withdrawing the “gift” it handed Israel by upgrading its relations with the European Union.

    In the past the world knew how to fight criminal policies. The boycott on South Africa was effective, but Israel is handled with kid gloves: its trade relations are flourishing, academic and cultural cooperation continue and intensify with diplomatic support.

    This international backing must stop. That is the only way to stop the insatiable Israeli violence. We are calling on the world to stop Israeli violence and not allow the continuation of the brutal occupation. We call on the world to Condemn and not become an accomplice in Israel’s crimes.

    In light of the above, we call on the world to implement the call by Palestinian human rights organizations which urges:

    * The UN Security Council to call an emergency session and adopt concrete measures, including the imposition of sanctions, in order to ensure Israel’s fulfilment of its obligations under international humanitarian law.
    * The High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions to fulfil their obligation under common Article 1 to ensure respect for the provisions of the Conventions, taking appropriate measures to compel Israel to abide by its obligations under international humanitarian law, in particular placing pivotal importance on the respect and protection of civilians from the effects of the hostilities.
    * The High Contracting Parties to fulfil their legal obligation under Article
    146 of the Fourth Geneva Convention to prosecute those responsible for grave breaches of the Convention.
    * EU institutions and member states to make effective use of the European Union Guidelines on promoting compliance with international humanitarian law (2005/C 327/04) to ensure Israel complies with international humanitarian law under paragraph 16 (b), (c) and (d) of these guidelines, including the adoption of immediate restrictive measures and sanctions, as well as cessation of all upgrade dialogue with Israel.

  7. Daniel S says:

    Israel is a state.

    It is not a religion.

    It is not a people.

    It is only a state.

    And a horrid one at that.

  8. dan valley says:

    Jim Rickards sayZ…
    Turkey is sideshow & #Gaza is sideshow of a sideshow. Main event is #Iran emboldened & #Israel nothing left to lose. War likely One reason I hammered #Goldman on #Greece is precisely the military importance of Greece’s role in eastern Med. Now playing out: #Israel

  9. GGees says:

    This YouTube video taken on board the boarded ship shows the reality not the nonsense shown by the IDF

  10. patrick59 says:

    Stacy, thanks for the label, “neanderthal nazis!” I was aruing for about the 50th time with an aquaintance of mine who supports (philosophically) those neanderthals this evening. Actually, you are too kind.

  11. Lloyd says:

    Israelis celebrate the ship attack across from the Turkish embassy.


  12. Peter Campbell says:

    Stacey, howabout a date next time you come to Australia, Max doesn’t need to know?? go on!!!

  13. jon says:

    Its like very obvious this was a set up to try and start ww3. And the ones pulling the strings were sitting in their cheataus or huge yauhts far away.

  14. nick says:

    hmm, the jews sure did learn valuable lessons from their german captors didnt they? building walls(warsaw ghetto); indiscriminate killings(again the warsaw ghetto, and others…); starving the arabs in gaza(sigh, again the warsaw ghetto…etc). i am sick of the desire of those in power to keep it regardless of the cost.

  15. Majestic says:

    I have to say that I wanted to stay away from this thread. You know, 10-ffot barge pole stuff.

    Which is actually a shame. Why should I feel compelled to abstain from a contribution because I know that passions will run hot on this topic, as those with an “everything my country does is good” meets the “Zionists hate everyone who’s not them” crowd, with of course natural rational comments an analysis somehow lost somewhere in the ensuring melee in-between.

    The fact is that the first casualty of war seems to be truth.

    This is probably because of a number of factors (people generally don’t like to go to war [though there’s always a proportion who welcome it to prove how much better they are than other peoples’], that the decision makers feel war’s strategically necessary, that “war is a racket”, etc. etc.)

    So the fact is that we can’t see or know all the parameters of this situation at this point in time. People point out that the flotilla was in international waters, others that the fleet was itself provocative, that ‘peace activists’ were seen attacking commandos, or that Commandos may have fired first before boarding ( http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0531/raw-video-reporter-claims-israelis-fired-activists-boarding-ship/ this link also claims that communications from the ship were attempted to be jammed, hmm, I wonder why?).

    I don’t know which side is telling the truth. I don’t even know if there *is* a right side. Sometimes ethics and justice fall into that grey area where decisions are complex and difficult. But it certainly will attempt to be manipulated by most sides for advantage.

    But racism and rabid nationalism/religious fervor is ugly when it comes from any side. It also feeds hatred from your foe.

    I just don’t understand why we all just can’t try to get along.
    Why must we have to have someone to hate??
    Seriously, it saddens me; not just the event, the whole thing.

  16. zaphodity says:

    ….Apparently the slingshots were made in Iranian nuclear facilities…

  17. Max Power says:

    Historically, the flotilla row is at best a grain of sand on 90 Kilometre Beach … but it makes a good argument that Mossad runs the nation seem plausible.

    Interesting actual history, Mossad’s predecessor entity was in part responsible for for founding the modern state … this is no Hudson’s Bay Company (or New Zealand Company)


    Prior to Israel’s formation

    The “Mossad Le’aliyah Bet” was a small, unorthodox Zionist organization whose mission in 1938 was to bring Jews to the British mandate of Palestine. This was done to subvert the British quotas on Jewish immigration. The Mossad’s modes of operation, its ideology, and politics resulted in the creation of the intelligence agency for the Israeli government once it was established in 1948. The agency consisted of several of the existing members who had worked to establish Israel as a Jewish state.

    Organizational odds and sods

    The Mossad does not use military ranks, although most of its staff have served in the Israel Defense Forces as part of Israel’s compulsory draft system, and many of them are officers. It is assumed to consist of eight different departments.

    And, why Belgians and Canadians have no reason to help …

    The Mossad is alleged to be responsible for the assassination of Canadian engineer and ballistics expert Gerald Bull outside his Brussels apartment March 22, 1990. He was shot multiple times in the head outside his apartment. Bull was at the time working for Iraq on the Project Babylon supergun.

  18. Max Power says:

    I simi-expect that there will be more TV series like what is mentioned below, but not just Turkey but also most of North Africa and the Gulf States …


    Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman summoned the Turkish ambassador to Israel in protest over a new television drama airing in Turkey that depicts Israel Defense Forces soldiers as brutal murderers. Lieberman instructed staff at the Foreign Ministry to protest in the face of their Turkish counterparts. He stressed that airing this type of show reflects a grave level of incitement – and with government approval.

    The drama’s Web site says it “brings to life the bleeding wound of Palestine. The show depicts all sides of the generations-long tragedy… This season focuses on the women and children and the Palestinian story, as well as the notion that the ultimate solution is love, compassion and world peace.”

  19. udee says:


    “Israel has jailed 487 international activists captured during its deadly commando strike on a Gaza aid convoy, while 48 others are to be “expelled.”

  20. Bonn says:

    Stupid Isarel was helped with reconasance aircrafts of USA during the 6 Day WAR & I agree with Mike Without assistance from USA Israel woulda got whipped & wacked
    the stupid Israelies also Fired @ the US top secret SR-71 Reconasance aircrafts not knowing what it was
    They got everyday updates from the US as to what was happening on the Battle field
    Dumb Twerps
    Hic 😉
    And hey we reached 500 +
    Whoot Whoot

  21. udee says:

    Next humanitarian-aid ships bound for Gaza will be seized by the Israels as they enter area around Wednesday (this is not yet in global “news”, but it will be)

  22. TJ says:

    @ Ingrid

    Notice anything wrong with your link?


    OK, let’s inform you then. From her own circulated pronouncements, Melanie Phillips (sounds Irish?) is proud to be Jewish. Until now I didn’t know she was a lying zionist as well but then I don’t read shitrags like the spectator.

  23. stacyherbert says:

    @Majestic – But racism and rabid nationalism/religious fervor is ugly when it comes from any side. It also feeds hatred from your foe. Well put. Thanks.

  24. Yaab says:

    Cynicism intended, why was this operation run by charity amateurs? Couldn’t have Turkey employed some pros like Somali pirates? Pay them living wages and let them run supplies in speedboats from a mother ship in international waters to Gaza? Why pit civis against IDF? It beggars belief!

  25. harry_w says:

    @ frances,


    Is Turkey running arms to Hamas? Is Turkey balking on the Nabucco deal with EU?

    Well, Harry?

    It’s rather unlikely, and the article you linked offers no support for the idea. Are you suggesting that Turkey is running arms to Hamas? Or just throwing the idea out there as a smear by implication? Given the maritime theme, nail your colours to the mast.

    If we ask questions concerning arms deals or resource wars are we to be implicated in ‘propaganda’? Well, Harry?


    Anyone knows that Radio Free Euriope/Radio Liberty is a propaganda organ of the United States.


    Again, your link offers no evidence to support the implied accusation in your questions. It’s just about Merkel visiting Turkey and Turkey’s attitude towards the EU. I’d already mentioned that issue earlier in the thread.


    The run to Gaza was not an event left to happenstance.

    You know who ‘israelnationalnews’ are?


    Arutz Sheva (Channel Seven) is an Israeli media network identifying with Religious Zionism. … Based in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank), Arutz Sheva is seen as the voice of the Israeli settlement movement.[2]

    Why is the World Bank suddenly concerned with Yemen and Al-Qaeda?


    Who are the good guys, Harry? Can you sift through the news for all of us and throw the propaganda chaff out?

    I’d like to know for sure who the good guys and the bad guys are: I mean other than Goldman Sachs and Al-Qaeda (they’re the baddies, right)

    Grow up.

    The World Bank is suddenly interested in Yemen as a proxy for US policy in the region, because, as their blog says ”We are now paying more attention to Yemen, because the Al Qaeda-inspired failed airliner bombing in the United States on December 24 originated, at least in part, there.”

    Why are you so sensitive on the subject of propaganda frances? Why do you suck it up by search engine and regurgitate it here uncritically? More often than not it’s still completely unrelated to your paranoid insinuations.

    It’s funny really, because all you’ve linked to is propaganda organs of the US, the Zionist settler movement and the World Bank. You seem to have a taste for it.


    Has someone left you alone in front of a search engine? Try to read and absorb at least some of what it turns up before you spam the results in posts here. Of course I’m aware of the pipeline diplomacy across Eurasia, and Turkeys pivotal place in that. What are you suggesting is the link between the Nabucco pipeline and this Isreali attack on the Turkish led flotilla aiming to break the Gaza blockade? Are you linking the pipeline to this event, or just insinuating some link and casting suspicion based upon the insinuation?

  26. Seosamh OGallunai says:

    you speak the truth.

  27. Seosamh OGallunai says:

    stacy – the deep lack of compassion and simple kind heartedness for the reasons of religion, ideology, defense, market share has always struck me. i’ve always been attracted to the great compassion that you and max bring to your shows – th voice you give to the unheard and unhearable – the scathing humour you show to the greedy game riggers that points up so clearly that these people are wearing the last desperate vestiges of ‘the kings new clothes’. Thank you both for that. IT IS WORTH REMEMBERING Y’ALL OUT THERE ON WWW LAND THAT STACY AND MAX ARE WEALTHY PEOPLE AND DONT HAVE TO PUT THEIR ENERGY AND EFFORT I NTO THIS WEBSITE OR TV PROGRAMMES.

  28. frances snoot says:

    I was being bombastic to draw your ire: it is a relatively easy assignment when anyone disagrees with your personal line of perspective. You throw napalm on discussions through your ad hominen attacks on other people: declaring the two p’s (propaganda and paranoid) as especial traits in those you disagree with.

    One could actually find it extremely hard to find a news outlet (other than this one) in which open dialogue is encouraged and in which the vested interests of the IMF are not at the forefront.

    Real intelligence is marked by humility, Harry. I made the mistake of assigning the trait of intelligence to you once, but your lack of humility more than erases any residual spark of whit.

  29. frances snoot says:

    I’m asking, Harry, why Turkey is on such an altruistic bent.

  30. Seosamh OGallunai says:

    Strong emotions are not terribly reliable. they seem to cause the actions that bring asbout much of the suffering in our fiscal, geopolitical world. I speak from the exprience of living through 25 years of tit for tat violence in N Ireland. ther were and are genuine concers but fear, anxiety and revenge got replaced by a weariness and sickness with bloody war by the orinary people of all communities. Even the IRA COs and members whom i worked with as a music teacher in Portlaoise Prison were very tired. After the ceasefire and the Good Friday agreement such a weight lifted off us all. We honestly never thought we’d see the day. Getting past the strong emotion and meeting the real concerns of the people for equal opportunity, human respect was key. Now we realise we are under the thumb of bankers and an elite-so what was all the bereavement for? now i am unafraid, everthing is crumbling and i think it’s a good thing.Something more compassionate will arise.
    PS Lay off Stacy! Without her Max’s show would never air and i know he’d be the first to admit it.Extremist hatred of any kind serves as a dense ashcloud obfuscating the truth.

  31. Geophysics says:

    Nobody, hi, friend!

    I like your nick name. You identified yourself You are just pure NOBODY, NOTHING, NONE!

    Our love and prayers for speedy recovery of 2 Israeli worriers who responded to the vicious attack of illegal bustards.

  32. aura says:

    The thing that puzzles me about this is that Israel has being murdering innocent Palestinians and whoever else they want with impunity since the state was formed – its business as usual for them. That’s why I am at a loss now as to this hue and cry, which is ten decades overdue. For example, Max has been outing the Zionists for years along with countless others, yet suddenly this incident, that quite frankly seems staged, proves to be the nail that breaks the camel’s back. The IDF is even contributing to their own condemnation by releasing IDF footage of the night time raid. They don’t have a good relationship with Barry Obama, that’s for sure, and the Zionists have their nuclear subs off the coast of Iran. This may simply be a staged event to allow certain world powers to distance themselves from Israel in advance of an IDF attack on Iran, giving the west plausible deniability. Or maybe the world knows Israel plans to attack Iran and just want to distance themselves from that attack and is using this incident to do it. Something doesn’t add up. Lebanon got bombed to smithereens by Israel and the outcry wasn’t nearly as intense as with this incident. Something is rotten in Denmark. This may be a precursor to a must nastier scenario on the horizon. Things are becoming totally unglued now in the world to such a degree that its really getting frightening.

  33. Seosamh OGallunai says:

    Dont worry aura, hold your nerve. As evidenced in quite a lot of these posts there is a huge and understandable fear among ordinary israeli citizens which gives rise to these overreactions. By mistake i’m sure, i received an email from a shadow labour minister about this flotilla last friday here in ireland. it was addressed to someone else but ended up in my account. there is nothing sinister in this. the names involved are just well known human rights people, whose mission is food and medicine to many parts of the world. also watching elections as observers. This is just an overreaction by israeli forces and general media like to hype tings up so we get scared and keep watching the news. (back to strong emotion). that said political and fiscal forces like to piggyback on to these happenings for their own ends in an opportunistic manner.
    E.g. in January 1972 a human rights march in the Bogside in Derry was gunned down, people were killed and injured by British troops who were teenagers and frightened and overreacted. Political establishment and extremists alike hijacked this event and the bloodshed went on for 25 years. see it for what it ids and watch for fiscal austerities and other stuff of that ilk to be implemented while our emotions are distracting us on this matter.

  34. Seosamh OGallunai says:

    im sorry for your deep fear. Having gone through the horrors of such etreme abuse any nation would be very scared. sometimes fear creates an overreaction, this seems to be the case for these young soldiers. i noticed the typing error and you said ‘young worriers’ instead of ‘warriors’.To scare the ordinary people of Isreal any further woul be a mistake leading to perhaps unthinkable consequences.
    Many, many people in today’s world have no wish to harm you or your brothers and sisters. Please be careful to not allow anxiety to create an overreaction.

  35. Geophysics says:

    Turkey should be thrown out of NATO. Its president is completely anti-Western and hardcore muslim. He is no difference that the notorious president of Iran.

  36. Geophysics says:

    im sorry for your deep fear. Having gone through the horrors of such etreme abuse any nation would be very scared. sometimes fear creates an overreaction

    It has nothing to do with overreaction. It is a legitimate response to the illegitimate behavior. Sanctions against Gaza is legal and internationally approved. The attempt of break the international law is a crime and must be punished.

    Since the people on the ship did not comply with the order and attacked Israeli military with knifes and metal pipes ( 4 other ships complied without resistance), opening fire is an action of self defense.

    So stop PMSing people, just use your brain to analyze the situation.

  37. Geophysics says:

    Looks like the bs coming from PMSing people who are not able to understand what is going on, slows down.

    Stacy, please, stop opening topics if you are biased or do not understand the situation completely. It will only serve you the best.

    Warm regards.

  38. Michael Le Couteur MSCD, ret'd says:

    So many new posters. Kinda proves the point WRT paid trolls and their incessant cheerleading for Israel.

    USS Liberty. Lavon Affair.

    By deception we wage war = Cowardice.

  39. Paddy says:

    Israel launches a nuke at Iran and it’ll be signing its own death warrant. They’re not that dumb are they?

  40. US GUY says:

    Well done Stacy! Linking to Juan Cole! You’re obviously on the right side of this issue. I think you guys just separated yourself from the fools at Zero Hedge. I once read them daily. Now, because of their reaction to this event, I am questioning their judgment on EVERYTHING.

    Imagine being ZH and suddenly running Likud arguments up the flagpole. It was jarring. It changed everything for me. Now, I don’t trust their ability to discern and use critical thinking for their OTHER articles.

    I wish you had an easier comment forum, I think you’d get a lot more business! I know a lot of people are done with ZH after this crack in their “red pill, blue pill” theme.

  41. harry_w says:

    @ frances,

    I was being bombastic to draw your ire: it is a relatively easy assignment when anyone disagrees with your personal line of perspective. You throw napalm on discussions through your ad hominen attacks on other people: declaring the two p’s (propaganda and paranoid) as especial traits in those you disagree with.

    One could actually find it extremely hard to find a news outlet (other than this one) in which open dialogue is encouraged and in which the vested interests of the IMF are not at the forefront.

    Real intelligence is marked by humility, Harry. I made the mistake of assigning the trait of intelligence to you once, but your lack of humility more than erases any residual spark of whit.

    I thought you were just cobbling together a bunch of propaganda sources (RFE, INN, WorldBank blog) to make a series of vague insinuations unsupported by any evidence. Now they’re napalmed to a crisp, you’re suggesting a different rationale for them.

    If I see any worthwhile political or economic content, I do try to respond to that. If I just see a string of unsubstantiated propaganda points, as Ingrid produced, or incoherent insinuations based on your suspicions, I point that out. If I have the time or inclination I’ll rip it to shreds too, pointing out why it’s propaganda or paranoid rambling.

    It should be quite easy to respond to that line of argument, if the points can be substantiated with fact. If not, then get better debating points, come up with more coherent politics or economics.

    How does one determine if a news outlet has “the vested interests of the IMF … at the forefront”? The IMF tends to concern itself with international finance and more than media, it’s a vehicle for exercising the influence of it’s leading member states.

    Thanks for the personal growth opportunity, try to base it on better source material next time.

  42. nobody says:

    @ Geophysics

    Who the hell are you to call me “friend”?? I do not have a stupid firend like you. My nickname indicates poeple like you who are anti-understanding.

  43. frances snoot says:

    Whet y’all doin’ sittin’ thare a’starin’ at that hawnd dawg fur, Stella?

    I’m waitin’ fur his lucid moment, Cleetus.

    Waahl, Y’all be a’waitin fur some time yet. That’s a dawg.

    I know. I know. But he used to have a human name. Harry W! W fur
    ‘whatever’ and Harry fur hairy.


    What’d-we name him, Cleetus?




    That’s an odd name fur a hawnd dawg, Cleetus. Shrimp! S-i-t, Shrimp. S-I-T!


    He don’t mind much, do he, Cleetus?


    What air good is a hawnd dawg that ain’t got the sense to mind?

    Well, he sure do have purty ears. And his nose is bent nicely to the ground. Done run over them ears a’sniffin’ thangs.

    You keep him, Cleetus.

    I don’t a’want him.

    Well, I don’t either!

    You named him! You feed him! You best get used to the ideedee.

    Shrimp! Fetch. F-E-T-C-H!


    Useless dawg, Cleetus.


  44. johnseattle says:

    Dead in the Water: BBC video report:

    During the Six-Day War, Israel attacked and nearly sank the USS Liberty belonging to its closest ally, the USA. Thirty-four American servicemen were killed in the two-hour assault by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats.

  45. Paul says:

    Han Solovitz shot first.

    American reportedly one of the 10 killed on the ships.

    American MSM doesn’t mention this.

  46. Isreali politics is contolled by Rotchild dynasty advancement. Egypt must also not be ignored as being complicent in the detention and slavery of innocent palestinains….. Example Rafah border crossing , which is closed 90% of the time.

  47. Off topic jibber jabber — Goldman Sachs comes out for SDR

    :Big banks too see the rgument strengthening. “Providing more SDR assets would spread out the gains from seigniorage more broadly and also reduce the structural risks associated with requiring the US to pump out more dollar assets for the still-growing stock of overall reserves,” Goldman Sachs said last week.:


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