[OTE46] On the Edge with Max Keiser – And Scott Baker – 19 March 2010

Stacy Summary: Guest is Scott Baker, Senior Editor of OpEdNews.

59 comments on “[OTE46] On the Edge with Max Keiser – And Scott Baker – 19 March 2010
  1. chArles says:

    first

  2. chArles says:

    second

  3. chArles says:

    I have a sad life…must be the red bull and Ni quil

  4. Marc Authier says:

    @Charles
    Het cheer up Charles. It will soon be over. Smile.

  5. Metoo says:

    sloppy fifths

  6. Mike/Liverpool says:

    W
    H
    E
    N
    ?

  7. chArles says:

    great show again Stacy and Max

    thanks Marc Authier

    I heard some of my fellow travelers talking about a return to taxing rents and away from labor and income must confess only have the most cursory understanding of Henry George’s work…

    about industrial production in America

    America has successfully offshore most of its industry which devastated its high population urban areas and crippled its northern Midwest areas…we have a tremendous amount of surplus labor now and our prison system is not large enough to absorb it all, luckily we have had an adventurous foreign policy to cut back on that population and focus a good chunk of the energies in killing brown folks…but this isn’t enough….we desperately need to come up with the next bubble or America may be in trouble

  8. The Dork of Cork says:

    Charles you are a funny guy – I have a stich from laughing at that comment

  9. Mini US says:

    Check this guy out.
    Really funny, yet right on the button.
    Just like Maxy.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/FunkSpunkter

  10. Gordo says:

    This Georgist system sounds a lot like what M. Hudson talks about.

  11. Mini US says:

    “Until it’s resolved, it’s going to be an issue.”

    Hahahaha
    These guys are genius’

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/us-stocks-drop-as-greek-debt-worries-return-20100320-qml2.html

  12. Happy Dick says:

    @charles–another bubble or America will be in trouble

    While Lord Blankfein and his brothers are controlling Wall Street, there is a high probability they the “Gibborim” will certainly engineer that bubble. here is a picture of Lord B and his fellow soldiers of fiscal calamity … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gibborim.jpg

  13. Davey Jones says:

    Good show, as usual!

  14. Joe says:

    So when does the war with Iran start?

    Get ready for the big one.

  15. sam says:

    Hey Guys,

    Great show.

    Fred Harrison, writer of Boom Bust: House Prices, Banking and the Depression of 2010 (published 2006/7) makes the same point of land value speculation. Also comes to the same conclusion of having a land tax.

    If you have not interviewed him already, he might make a good guest. esp as the UK is some time soon in the thing of beauty list.

    S.

  16. rich says:

    Yeah – Scott Baker – sounds like Larry Newhart
    So how does this sit-com end anyway?
    I don’t think I can take another season of this.

  17. sam says:

    sorry, it was first published in 1999.

  18. Viriathus says:

    Great guest. Geolibertarian and Georgist ideas could help bridge the gap between so-called progressives and the Ron Paul set.

  19. Henry George
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George

    Even though I was egregiously hammered last night (ahem)
    I did pick up on the hint from sam re: Henry George and the concept of value…
    so today I found one of his works online where he discusses the concept in greater detail…
    http://savingcommunities.org/docs/george.henry/specontents.html
    (book II chaps ix-xiv)

    So thanx sam for that suggestion, maybe I can at least enlighten myself a little,
    if not outright answer my own question…

  20. Matt says:

    Scott Baker sounds exactly like Dustin Hoffman in the “The Graduate”.

  21. (from book II, chap IX, part 23)
    And from looking further than exchangeability for an explanation of the nature of value, these succeeding economists have been dissuaded and debarred not only by certain facts not understood, such as the fact that many things having value do not originate in labor, and by erroneous conceptions, such as that which treats labor itself as a commodity; but by a greatly effective, though doubtless in most cases a very vague recognition of the fact that danger to existing social institutions would follow any too searching an inquiry into the fundamental principle of value. A world of ingenuity has been expended and monstrous books have been written that it will tire a man to read and almost make him doubt his own sanity to try to understand, to solve the problem of the fundamental nature of value in exchange.
    :lol:
    that’s not very encouraging…

  22. sam says:

    @Giuseppe Bagodonutti, cheers.

    I am a great believer in the Land Value tax system, but realist enough to know that most states, countries or societies will never bring it in.

    it’s an amazingly simple concept. you can reduce the number of tax collectors in a single simple policy, – you don’t have to worry about who earned how much, where and bought what with it etc…

    There are lots of benefits to a society.

    Illegal workers competing with legal workers lose any edge they have (normally willing to work for low pay as they are black market). but can be cut off from benefits as they would not be able to access government handouts.

    The best thing I like about it is, if I buy a piece of land, build a house on it, my neighbor who owns a similar piece of land cannot simply speculate on land value going up. He/she will have to get a job and be productive. But maybe that’s because I’m not work shy, and know the difference between saving, investing, and speculating.

    Does mean that all those property ‘porn’ programs would have to replaced with something else on TV though.

    On some of my rambling thoughts, I have worked out a few scenarios where land value may not work, the obvious one is where one nation which practices land value taxation is at war with a nation which does not. Military spending seems to work off debt creation instead of direct taxation. In the short term this could give the land value tax system a disadvantage.

  23. Wahrheit says:

    Max looks like he just rolled out of bed.

  24. The roach says:

    Rising unemployment and increasing productivity…HOORAY,

    I have an idea, why don’t we just pay people wages with bread and water spiked with prozac and ritalin. That should keep big pharma happy too BONUS.
    Also we can legalise child labor so when we finish our 12 hour shifts, our children can take over and now we can compete against China.

    Also, it would be well worth the effort for everyone to compare employment, debt, gdp and capacity utilization with oil consumption and PRICE.

    This should give everyone the necessary insentive to begin storing food and learning how to grow vegies because its all over.

    Is it to conspiracy theorist of me to say that attacking Iran has nothing to do with incresing oil supply to the west but rather making sure China’s supply of energy is decreased and thus their bubble can burst too???

    No point trying to convince china to sign up a global emissions trading economy if their currency is the only one that survives the collapse and thus have all the purchasing power to consume all the wonderful oil they could ever need???

    hmmmmm….

  25. Wahrheit says:

    Max is using the word “blowback”? I hope he doesn’t mean to suggest 9/11 was blowback.

    Material proof of explosives used to bring down the World Trade Center twin towers and building 7:
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13049

  26. The roach says:

    @Giuseppe Bagodonutti

    Hey, I would really appreciate if you (or anyone else?) would go to the link below and give me your feedback.

    To me, it seems absolutely logical that money is nothing but a claim on energy. Money represents energy we cannot see, small or touch but obviously require and that moneys value is determined by its energy purchasing power.

    Please free feel to offer any critique, I’m really anxious for some feedback haha…

    http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/what-money

  27. Davey Jones says:

    Speak softly… softly.

    9/11 The Military Knows Israel Did It – Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT5IVEQuzv8&feature=related

    This is NOT about all Jews. This is about some Jews.

    RAHM EMMANUEL IS A FUCKING FOREIGN AGENT WHO HAS SERVED/VOLUNTEERED FOR ISRAELI ARMED FORCES BUT
    !
    <>!!
    US ARMED FORCES.

    Fucking goddamn outrageous bullshit.

  28. Davey Jones says:

    I just don’t want Israel to kill all humanity like always happens in their disgusting Jewish/Christian hate orgies.

    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/03/doubling-down-against-petraeus.html

  29. Davey Jones says:

    Buchanan – The Poodle Gets Kicked.
    http://buchanan.org/blog/the-poodle-gets-kicked-3731

    Any Jews reading this, please, you must realize, I hope, that Israel’s ultra-nationalist, racist warmongering, combined with religious extremism and a tendency to OVERREACT, is the biggest THREAT to the human species going forward.

    Doubt me? Read Deuteronomy, read Revelations, read the Talmud. You people have some apocalyptic tendencies, along with other admirable qualities, like high IQ, sobriety, humor, and educational values. Israel scares the shit out of me. They have 400 nukes, minimum. I love Jews, I have Jews in my family. It’s not about anti-semitism. It’s about extremism and the challenges of the 21st century. Israel is reacting to the horrors of Nazi Germany, and though it’s hard to hear, they are MISREACTING AND OVERREACTING. The Nazis are done, we AMERICANS DEFEATED THEM. Both my grandfathers helped defeat Nazis, now help us defeat Israeli extremism. Reach out to any Israelis you know.

  30. lek says:

    the bunker busting bombs were originally for Israel but Obama diverted them to Diego Garcia. To me it looks like the bombs wont be used and iran can go on with its plans to attack israel.

    http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2010/me_israel0217_03_18.asp

    On the subject of Jihad Jane, there is a good essay over at Human Events

    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36077

  31. @the Roach

    I read your theory, but I can’t respond yet (account is pending approval)
    I will at that time…
    There are a couple things you haven’t factored in,
    but, over-all, your idea seems to be sound in principle…
    Now I guess it becomes a matter of hammering out details…

  32. hamstercheese says:

    …I found Progress and Poverty to not be very readable, but I like the concept of only taxing land. Just as a mental excersize….what if no one owned land and the government reclaimed it all…then do we tax our government?

  33. jon says:

    israel and the usa are just the elitest military mercenary pawns. Israel was created as a military outpost and excuse for western intervention of the middle east for. “OIL”.

    Before there was oil discovered in the middle east the middle east was a pretty peaceful place.Where many religions and people lived pretty peaceful lives. Then the westerners discovered oil. Great amounts of rich light crude.

  34. The roach says:

    @Giuseppe Bagodonutti

    Yeah, It just seems to make so much sense, to me anyway.

    Monetary economics and Energy economics just seem gel too closely to more than coincidense?

    But yeah, I can see at least a few points that I believe are incorrect but that can be changed to work…

    Being more interested in the physical science’s, I just cannot help but want to find the answers that connect our natural resources to the present economic state in which we find ourselves because I am 100% certain that they are inseparable but yeah, any ideas would be greatly appreciated ;-)

  35. Well “the Roach”
    You might find the first part of this essay by T.H. Huxley to be of value…

    and to the proponents of Adam Smith and Henry George, you might find the criticism of interest as well…
    Capital – the Mother of Labour
    http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/CE9/CaML.html
    I think it may be not too much to say that, of all the political delusions which are current in this queer world, the very stupidest are those which assume that labour and capital are necessarily antagonistic; that all capital is produced by labour and therefore, by natural right, is the property of the labourer; that the possessor of capital is a robber who preys on the workman and appropriates to himself that which he has had no share in producing.

    On the contrary, capital and labour are, necessarily, close allies; capital is never a product of human labour alone; it exists apart from human labour; it is the necessary antecedent of labour; and it furnishes the materials on which labour is employed. The only indispensable form of capital–vital capital–cannot be produced by human labour. All that man can do is to favour its formation by the real producers. There is no intrinsic relation between the amount of labour bestowed on an article and its value in exchange. The claim of labour to the total result of operations which are rendered possible only by capital is simply an a priori iniquity.

  36. Phil /Germany says:

    William Black Interview …

    To rob a country, own a bank

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA_MkJB84VA

  37. Chalcedonite says:

    … I am a Chalcedonite.

    In the BOOK that I read there is no authority given for “income tax”, … or “land tax”.

    …only around 8 grams of silver/year from every male 20 years and older* towards a justice system (civil government power limit)

    *This is the civil government tax

    Household wages should be allocated (but there is no coercion or penalty to do so):
    a) 1% to pay for the priest (minister) of our own choice for worship and education (ecclesiastical power limit)
    b) 9% donated to ministries (an agency, foundation, or business of our own choice “Holy unto the LORD”) for further education, health and infrastructure…

    This is the 10% tithe

    c) 5% donated to help the poor of our own choice (could be widow/orphan…)

    This is the poor tithe

    d) 5% to spend with our family of our own choice to rejoice in the Lord (holiday funds)

    This is the rejoicing tithe

    e) The rest is towards family business (also inheritance) of our own choice

    f) NO long term DEBT (in case of emergencies God allows a 6 year debt – MAX).

    Our, civil and ecclesiastical authorized (God given) power is limited.

    Christ forbids unjust weights and measures, theft, deception, unauthorized power, long-term debt, and democratic coercion; everything the state allows.

    These are hard things to grasp because we really don’t have authority to coerce others accept for those in our household and personal businesses, this is hell for control freaks.

  38. Febo says:

    Thankyou Max and Stacy! Get rid of income tax and impose land tax – an idea propounded in the UK by Fred Harrison. I love it, but of course, the media doesn’t discuss it.
    We need visions for the future like this. Shift the focus from the banksters to the world we want to build.

  39. Bliaboo says:

    Excellent program again!

    “Rigged-market capitalism” and the banksters’ “business model: the people can have the loses, we only want the profits”. Instant classics.

    One more for DC-banksters business model for “the people”

    Credit scores drop after getting mortgage loan assistance from the USG (i.e. the peoples’ monies):

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Credit-scores-can-drop-after-apf-1601705094.html?x=0

    Banksters get assistance = doubling of massive irrational bonuses

    The people get assistance = a boot in the ass (no istance) .

  40. Mep says:

    You mean we can’t just manufacture guns, bombs, tanks, mental patients, and career prisoners and expect to have a functioning economy? Dammit, man!

  41. Bonn says:

    Great Show I See ya took a jab @ GMO
    ROFL
    Hic ;-)

  42. fionns dragon says:

    voters… eh voters?…….. nah peasants…

    so funny max, great show

  43. JT says:

    Great show Max & Stacey…actually a great week in here overall…now we want more! :)

  44. gaspode says:

    Great show.

    Comments:
    First part

    Here’s Wepolloc’s rant about racketeering:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFgBpneUCNw

    He is right (just like Max ). We have to adress this issue first. The problem is that we (the baby boomers) all have got ASS (Aquierd Stockholm Syndrome). We have put our savings in to the system (both in the housing and Wall street ponzis). We are as guilty as every one else in trying to kick the can to somebody else.

    Second part:

    I belive it has been posted before – but: Ricardo’s Law

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZkfmY1PMng&feature=player_embedded

    Who was Henry George?

    http://www.henrygeorgeschool.org/whowashg.htm

    It makes perfect sense to tax the value of land and extraction of natural recources. Then we didn’t have to worry about such consepts as “the tragedy of the commons” .

  45. i'm Alan Partridge says:

    The Oreo Reveloution?

  46. William of the North says:

    @ Max and Stacey,

    I am really impressed that you are willing to talk about Iran and Israel. Ahead of the curve is a good place to be.

    Evil is a point of view.

  47. Adam C says:

    Max and Stacy,

    Thanks for giving time to the Georgian/Geolibertarian perspective. I particularly liked Baker’s comment about a “land cycle” rather than a “business cycle”.

    Max asked twice ‘how did governments fund themselves before?’

    Here’s a chart taken from a Fred Harrison video that shows the generational shift of taxation from land and onto labor, in the UK: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2711/4446366350_f24cb0a17a_o.png

    Fred Harrison: Betrayal of the Lords
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki-Od1MMa78

  48. Adam C says:

    Of course, through wars and welfare, governments have grown so much larger (that was the plan), but if we were to go back/forward to a land vaue tax, we could shrink centralised government and give people back their money and thus the opportunity to do provide for themselves and each other in their local communities.

    The benefits of a land value tax are well explained here:
    http://www.landvaluetax.org/what-is-lvt/

    And here is a list of those countries currently using land value taxes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax#Existing_tax_systems

    @Febo

    I agree. Land Value Tax is the only possible tax to get excited about. And really it’s not even a ‘tax’ in the negative sense. It’s more like a community points system, measuring for how well the community uses its local resources and how well individuals are providing for themselves and each other. It’s honesty and integrity in practice.

    @Giuseppe Bagodonutti

    Many thanks for the Henry George link.

  49. Adam C says:

    Some others:

    Fred Harrison: Ricardo’s Law ~ The Great Tax Clawback Scam
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZkfmY1PMng

    “The greatest scam in history: All democratic governments maintain a tax system that milks the poor to keep the rich, rich. ‘Progressive taxes’ are a cover for a cruel hoax on people with low incomes. This is how the scam works…”

    More Fred Harrison:
    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fred+harrison

    The Chaos Makers: The Dreamers & The Deceived by Fred Harrison (1997) (PDF)
    http://renegadeeconomist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/the-chaos-makers.pdf

    ‘INSUFFICIENT attention has been paid to the ways in which the chaos makers in the land market shape our destinies. Land supply is in fixed supply in those places where people need to live, close to the opportunities for employment. …speculation in land pushes its price beyond affordable limits …instability manifests itself in myriad forms of conflict that torture the industrial economy (labour relations, unemployment, etc). — The treatment of rent as a public revenue would eliminate the acquisitive force behind the booms and busts. The fiscal reform proposed here would ensure that the short-term private interests of the individual would converge with the long-term interests of the community. This would enable people to plan the accumulation of savings over their earning lifecycle to the point where the price of capital would drop to very low levels: it would be at this point that poverty and unemployment would be permanently eliminated within a system of sustainable development.’

  50. Adam C says:

    Dr. Michael Hudson — The New Road to Serfdom: An Illustrated Guide to the Coming Real Estate Collapse (PDF)
    http://michael-hudson.com/articles/debt/Hudson,RoadToSerfdom.pdf

    ‘Never before have so many Americans gone so deeply into debt so willingly. Most members of the rentier class are very rich. One might like to join that class. And so our paradox (seemingly) is resolved. With the real estate boom, the great mass of Americans can take on colossal debt today and realize colossal capital gains—and the concomitant rentier life of leisure—tomorrow. If you have the wherewithal to fill out a mortgage application, then you need never work again. What could be more inviting—or, for that matter, more egalitarian? — The bubble will burst, and when it does, the people who thought they would be living the easy life of a landlord will soon find that what they really signed up for was the hard servitude of debt serfdom.’ — ‘…commercial real estate investors hide most of their economic rent in “depreciation” write-offs for their buildings, even as those buildings gainmarket value.’

    The Daily Bell — Ingo Bischoff on why a land tax is good and the enduring popularity of Henry George
    http://www.thedailybell.com/503/Ingo-Bischoff-Henry-George.html

    Bischoff: “George’s economic analysis has lost popularity due partly to a concerted effort by land and natural resource “owners” to protect their privilege of collecting community created land values. In this, they are aided by politicians who implement favorable tax policies and by the educational profession which has redefined land as “private” capital, thereby destroying the distinction between land and real capital. Taxation on land value reacts totally different from taxation on real capital. — Americans have long deemed it a right to profit from community created land values. Now that land values are declining [due to deindustrialization], people feel themselves deprived of an assumed entitlement. They are beginning to wonder about the efficacy of speculating in land, particularly when it involves the land underneath their houses. It is quite likely that the present dilemma of declining land values will bring about a resurgence of the land value tax idea.”

    Bischoff: “The kind of taxation for which the school argues is the only tax that when applied does not provide less of what is taxed, namely land values. Any other tax applied causes a diminishing effect to the matter taxed.” — On America: “The only way the crises can be resolved is by returning to the gold standard, by reviving the Bill Market, by returning to the provisions of the original Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and definitely by suspending paragraph (b) of Section 14 of the act, and by repealing “legal tender” laws. Thereafter, the “invisible hand” of Adam Smith will take over and launch us on the road to an unimaginable prosperity, provided of course that the only tax collected by sovereign States and governments is Henry George’s “single [land value] tax”. Due to its constitution, and due to the work ethics, the general common sense and the goodness of its people, the United States is uniquely positioned to overcome the present economic and government crises.”

  51. Carmen Azul says:

    Has anyone seen the new Black Visa Card? I think it’s for people who do black ops, or deal in dark pools or who are good at black (money) holes. Still even for them, if they don’t pay on time they will pay the new “standard” 30% rate, but they will probably have a way around that anyway.

  52. jim says:

    the G financed itself through tariffs

  53. WL says:

    @roach

    Money is a claim on future labour,,…energy is a major component in the productivity of such labour

    @Max
    As I have said,, the colour for a global revolution against the bankster theftocracy is…

    GOLD GOLD GOLD GOLD GOLD GOLD GOLD

  54. gaspode says:

    @ Adam C

    Thanks for the links. Most of the I actually had bookmarked already, but forgotten about.
    We don’t see the forest , for all the trees – as we say in Norway.

    The great Chesterton in his essay Utopia of Usurers :

    “The great difficulty with the English lies in the absence of
    something one may call democratic imagination. We find it easy
    to realise an individual, but very hard to realise that the great
    masses consist of individuals.”

  55. solipsist says:

    Anybody knows Adam Russo’s Movie:
    http://video.google.ch/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&ei=ddukS76WNJfS-Ab1rsmLDQ&q=Aron+Russo&hl=de&dur=3&client=safari#

    It’s a doku investigating on the topic of US income tax: Seems not to be legal at all!!
    funny isn’t it! Or is the the docu a hoax?????(Don’t think so..)

  56. Adam C says:

    @gaspode

    A very good quote!

  57. Sam says:

    @the other sam,I thought we had a lot in common but am realizing that you think of Henry George as some sort of a utopia where I see it as natural law. It doesn’t matter if anyone adopts it, you can still use it to predict market behavior. I think the guys that created the financial crisis understood it well.

    As far as funding a war, you need resources and incentives for the machines of wars. Simply killing taxes on resources that supply the war machine and offering up good old fashioned war bonds should allocate the funds.

  58. Sam says:

    @Giuseppe, thanks for checking it out, I hope it helps you filter out the chaos like it did for me.

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